Okay. Now that we both have show the ability to cut and paste, lets discuss the contents of what has been pasted. Let's talk about extremists, fanatics, black and white thinkers, people who make statement without any supporting evidence, nor possessing the ability to construct their own arguments. If you think I am wrong, let's engage in a discussion, debate the issues like civilzed men. Wild never demonstrated the ability to do so, due to his intellectual weakness. Wild is history now, a blip on the internet of hate and extremist thinking, all in the name of "peace." Are you say the same? Can you demonstrate the ability to see both sides of an issue? Can you put yourself in the other's person's shoes? Can you see the gray? Or is it all black and white in your world, and us versus them world, good versus evil, right versus wrong, religions fanaticsim versus freedom of religion, devoid of the ability to reach a common and middle ground of civility and reasonable discourse without the need for extreme emotionalism and jimgoism? I look forward to open and honest dialogues, if possible, without the need to constantly quote knows sources that are ripe with bias. For each and every one of your artilcles from the Guardian, which are op ed pieces for the most part, not news articles, I can post....I can match them one for one or easily exceed them with op ed pieces from the right. Is that really what helps us grow and change, evolve out of the primitive impluses that threaten our world? What does that prove? That we can create polarity betwen people? That has already been proven innefective throughout history, leaving only those with military superiority to construct the "might makes right" world we have lived in since the beginning. Why not try to join those who seek truth, not bias and agenda?
Oops, I meant that vile post of Goldenarm's, he put out the "list" of 10 reasons the US supports Israel on page 165 of this thread, sorry Candle. My apologies, I confused you with him/her/it.
Candle, traderfut, et al keep avoiding this question for which they should have an answer for: (from a previous post): RS7, max401, and others have asked variations on this question many times on this thread ad nauseum, yet you refuse to answer it. Instead you go off on tangents, changing the subject to Israeli history for example. Ignoring this question only further solidifies that you in fact do not have an argument to begin with.
Do you really expect a coherent answer from a guy who claims Kuwait is in fact part of Iraq, thus excusing Saddam from his venture there?
Well, in fairness to Iraq, Kuwait was part of that country a long time ago. However, there is a doctrine of laches, which in legal terms is "the legal doctrine that a legal right or claim will not be enforced or allowed if a long delay in asserting the right or claim has prejudiced the adverse party (hurt the opponent) as a sort of 'legal ambush.' " I think the basic premise would apply. It's been too long a time to now complain or take action to reclaim. Theory of adverse possession would also apply.
Yup. If England were to attack us now on the basis that we used to be a part of their Empire, who in their right mind would claim such an attack was justifiable? Wait, err, probably a few people on this thread would...... Furthermore, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait - now THAT Candle, traderfut, et al, was indeed all about the oil, baby!
wow...my apologies to all for my last post about 10 pages ago. I made some reference to Israel, and of course that resulted in a barrage of cut and paste "history" from traderfut. TF, my man......find some new sources! As Optional777 says, and as I myself have said, things are not black and white. Why bother posting the same opinions (from far left wing sources) repeatedly. I mean not only the same general point of view, but the actual same articles repeatedly? If I did read them, and disagreed, do you think posting them repeatedly and getting me to re-read them (I don't, and neither does anyone else) will eventually get me to change my mind? We all know how you feel....Israel is a terrorist state. Israel has oppresses the Palestinians. Israel is responsible for massacres and unspeakable atrocities. How many times do we need to hear this? How many times do we need to hear how Begin and Sharon and all the rest (except Golda Meir, who was knitting sweaters in Wisconson at the time) were murderers? Terrorists? The Israelis displaced the Palestinians from their garden of Eden (or is Paradise the more appropriate word?) and for the past 55 years have suffered because of this. Israel was always a green and fertile oasis in the desert. The Jews had nothing to do with it. So that is why the Palestinians need to "get back to the garden" (Joni Mitchell). How about a bit of counterpoint? Why do we never ever hear about how the Jewish refugees from a war torn Europe where 6,000,000 of their people were murdered with no chance of resistance, and virtually no protection from the good people of Europe came and fought for a place in which they could feel safe and secure? Why is it that it is justifiable for palestinians to kill Israeli citizens, but when "Israeli terrorists" (they preferred to be considered "freedom fighters" but who doesn't?) bombed a hotel in protest of the public hangings of their fellow "freedom fighters", they were not justified? I do not and will not defend as justifiable the actions that these "freedom fighters" took. Their tactics were severe and in many cases atrocious. But they did win their independence. So at least give them credit for being successful and efficient "terrorists". They accomplished their goal. They have a country. And it has flourished. Now the "Palestinians" want "their" land back. Why should they have tried to build a nation when all they had to do was sit back and wait for their "right of return"? I can't make these points any more. I am getting bored. And you should be too. The arab people that left what is now Israel and now call themselves "Palestinians" could have done for themselves if their arab brothers had supported them at all. You say that they were all displaced from Israel in 1948. This is just not so. Some were, certainly. But the majority left with the promise from Egypt and Syria and Jordan and Iraq and Lebanon, and all the rest of he arab nations that a swift end would be in store for the State of Israel. (Amazingly, the arabs that chose to stay are very happy Israeli citizens). On the very day that Israel celebrated their independence, they were attacked with only one arab objective: Complete annihilation of Israel. On that very same day, the "palestinians" rejected the homeland provision of the British mandate to divide "palestine". They had their opportunity to have a country and, predictably, they did not want what they could have. Only what they could not. Sort of like my brother when he was 4 and I was 6. So there is more than one way to look at this situation. TF, I empathize with the plight of today's palestinians. I sincerely do. I hope they get a real country to call their own. I hope they can manage to create a free and democratic Palestinian state. It would certainly be a welcome change for the Arab world. A place where any Arab person would be welcome. Just as in Israel, where any Jewish person is welcome. However, I see really one major problem with this. And it ain't coming from Israel. What Arab nation would want a democracy established in their midst? How will that affect the social structure of the nations that would have to border a free arab state? How would the powers that be in these surrounding arab nations deal with a country that offers refuge to any arab that wants to live in a democracy? Hard to imagine! TF...give some solutions instead of complaints. Talk about the future instead of the past. The past has seen far too much bloodshed and accomplished zero for the Palestinians. Arafat....you say he is not a terrorist. I say he is. You say Sharon is a terrorist, and I don't disagree. You say Begin was a terrorist, and I don't disagree. But the past is over. Today a nation exists in part because of the efforts of Israeli "terrorists" (if you like the term). But still, there is no nation called Palestine. So maybe you are right. Maybe Arafat is not a terrorist. Just not an ineffective statesman. Or maybe I am right and Arafat is a terrorist. Just an ineffective terrorist. Give solutions. What do you suggest? Other than Isreal just committing national suicide? Germany had a government that was recognized as legitimate. This government warred with other countries. It committed unspeakable atrocities. Yet the German people were not and never will be driven from their homeland. Now you accuse Israel of being a fascist state. And of being guilty of massacres and other atrocities in the past. (I contend that today they fight for thier very survival only...but that is my opinion...far different than yours) Does this mean that Israel should cease to exist? And it's citizens cast out of the land they worked to build and into the sea? Because this is the official policy, to this day, of nations like Syria and Iraq and Libya. And in truth, still the agenda of Saudi Arabia and really all of the rest of the arab middle east. Which should answer the recurring question that this thread has seen. Why does the US back Israel? The answer is simple. And it is also very telling when taken in context of the "war for oil" nonsense we hear here. Israel has no oil. Israel does have democracy. And so we are on the same side politically, philosophically and morally with Israel. Israel exists in great part because of the shameful treatment of the Jews in Europe during the holocaust. And this is the right thing. Morality counts! And morality counts for the palestinians too. Give them a competent leader with not only a desire for peace, but the guts to really accept peace in the face of the displeasure of the other arab nations, and Palestine will be a country very soon. And assuredly with more assistance from Israel than can be expected from the nations of their so called "arab brothers". The very same "arab brothers" that refused to let the palestinians be assimilated into their countries. The ones that put them in refugee camps instead of in their societies. Peace, rs7
TF, why is that those from the middle east are almost universally known as liars? Why is lying a part of that culture?