Poll: Have you discovered a "holy grail" system?

Discussion in 'Automated Trading' started by tenthousandmen, Feb 6, 2012.

Have you made and used a "holy grail"

  1. Yes

    42 vote(s)
    53.8%
  2. No

    36 vote(s)
    46.2%
  1. Yeah, those dam greedy algorithms.

    :D
    :cool:

    Application is a different animal than theory, especially when it comes to financial markets dependent on strategy trading automation and genetically programmed algorithms.

    I've said to myself a long time ago and to this day I want them to "BARK FIRE!!"
     
    #31     Feb 6, 2012
  2. d08

    d08

    What top 5? Give a link and prove it or keep it to yourself.
    A holy grail thread will attract BoWo like a moth to a flame.
     
    #32     Feb 6, 2012
  3. http://www.worldcupadvisor.com/worldcupchampionships/default_nwcc2.aspx

    I'm not saying I'm there but that's what I'm doing with the returns I discussed for those strategies.

    Too true. I'm so predictable!
     
    #33     Feb 6, 2012
  4. I'm really looking forward to my first 10 lot NQ position, but moreover the first 100 lot and first 1000 lot will be even more enjoyable.
     
    #34     Feb 6, 2012
  5. d08

    d08

    Those results are not amazing in relation to the drawdowns.
    Very good but not close to a holy grail as true holy grail signals would never be available for sale.
     
    #35     Feb 6, 2012
  6. Madoff was a fraud.

    4% drawdown and 40% annually for 10 years is a fraud. You might see 3-5 year records like that, but pure ponzi scheme if it's older than that.

    I've seen drawdown all the way to 2% at my size, get over 20%, and scaling up you get to Madoff, but any more or any less drawdown or whatever your figure is I believe in using 100% of my margin for futures and ETF trading.

    Just try designing a portfolio that doesn't lose more than 50% at a 100% margin to equity ratio. I bet you can't, but we're like 40% on 1,000% annually in our backtests, and we just need a few more analyses before we can make the call between what 1 more contract on futures can get us versus the other strategies. I have that, and no matter what there's so few people that do it that way if you're not making 100% every 6 months it's just not worth it to invest your time not earning an income at a regular job if your goal is to attract tons of subscribers, ad infinitum if you're trading futures.

    So what's the problem? Nobody except me uses 100% of their margin and gets less than 50% drawdown. I actually get 40% for that 2 year $3.8 million on 33,000, so it's not like I'm saying it's not risk free. It isn't at all. Futures trading is the riskiest investment you can ever make, but if you've come to trust the professionals of your managed futures portfolio, and they trust their managers, they will do everything they can to earn a good return, then it's not just a good return they want but a stupendous one, and that's primarily what I've been working toward for years. Now I'm there, and if it doesn't work out there's no other outlet for me. Failure's not an option, but since I'm in the midst of doing it and it's working I don't see anything wrong with approaching my trading for max return. Max risk anyway you cut it is still 100%. Period. It'll never be any less than 100% risk every time you even begin to think about opening a futures margin related or managed futures account. So why not use all of it as it is, which is trading capital?

    It's not like there's no risk. 50% drawdown anything can be argued as too risky. 20%, 10% and 2% per trade is also too risky for some people, but if it's not recognized that in order to get returns like that nearly all of your margin must be deployed <b><i>efficiently</b></i> then the rest is on the professional managing the model, and I completely understand incredulity, but it's not like I'm trying to lie about whether I'm actually getting those returns, that's just what I'm basing my assumptions on, and even if the assumptions are half as good (glass half full) and the drawdown is underestimated I think it'll still be worth it.
     
    #36     Feb 6, 2012
  7. Ah, normalized volatility thresholds indicating fair value.

    Guess I don't have to get up in the morning.

    Need to go up a few percent before we're overvalued, but at fair value, I'll take the money and run because I don't know where this market will go to next. When it reaches a mispriced level, then I'll have a go of it, but I'll just be running some of my other algorithms besides the pairs model that's telling me to stay in bed tomorrow.

    Other than trades on open, my pairs trades only require click buy/sell at market on open or monitor QID/QLD's price, and the other's are hands free and much more intensive. The lifestyle's pretty good, and I have some other business to attend to.
     
    #37     Feb 6, 2012
  8. #38     Feb 6, 2012
  9. It's really the $300 per unit per month subscriber revenue, recognition, and $50,000 account to the top 5 I'm after.

    The most succesful leaders make well into the 7 figures annually. Keeping the followers is a little less fickle than c2, but I say probably less fickle than that since it's advertised to professionals, managed futures brokers, cta's, and basically anyone that wants to trade with proven talent.

    When I started with $24,000 recently, after refining some of my allocations, I was trading 11 units. The average subscriber would pay $100 to $300 per unit per month or $1,100 to $3,300 per month to me at a decent split in addition to broker commissions between $15 and $30 per contract.

    Money.

    Some people got to have it.

    I'm not excited by any of the prizes but the money and potential large subscriber base that'd get me, just for doing my job.
     
    #39     Feb 6, 2012
  10. well good luck to you either way, I mean that. :)
     
    #40     Feb 6, 2012