Poker and the Beginning Trader

ewile · Jan 12, 2003

I've been a regular at the planetpoker nickle dime table for about 5 months now, so I'm no "prude" when it comes to internet gambling, but there is no way in hell that I would play any game against the house/computer opponent, like what you describe.

hii a_ooiioo_a · Jan 12, 2003

So you feel suspicious of the software too?

I just went to another gaming site, signed up, played as a guest with play money. It's the exact same games and software as the other site I went to today. In 10 minutes I turned the $2,500 play money into $3,500 playing the same Baccarat and CyberPoker that I had practiced earlier on the other site.

I just can't believe these games could be that easy, but maybe they can? Maybe they expect the majority of online gambling private citizens to be incompetent boobs? And maybe they're right?

Or else, I'm the boob for believing for one second that this stuff isn't a set-up.

ewile · Jan 12, 2003

Get a couple of good Hold'em books and learn a game that you can profit from forever.

btw, unless you're really into figuring this stuff out on your own, Lee Jones, Winning Low Limit Hold'em tells you exactly what opening cards to play and weather to call or raise.

Molon Labe · Jan 12, 2003

I play the 15/30 hold 'em regularly at www.partypoker.com .

I dropped about 15k in my first couple months, and have since made back a little more than that.

So I'm profitable, and yes they let you cash out whenever you like, and this always goes smoothly.

Online poker (at least at partypoker.) is NOT rigged by the house.
There is occasionally some collusion (=cheating) between players,
but even an inexperienced fish would be able to recognize the collusion, and report it. The house then has a record if one player bumped up a pot with nothing- so in a way it's harder to cheat at online poker than live games.

The best poker book imo, is 'Hold 'em poker for advanced players' by Sklansky & Malmuth. Although, you'd probably need to read Sklansky's other hold 'em book first to understand hfap, it's well worth it if this hobby interests you.

www.paradisepoker.com is an absolute shark's den at the higher limit tables. Even a decent player would probably get eaten alive over there. I know I have.

Better off sticking to party & pokerstars for online action, and for the last time- <b> no, they are not rigged! </b>

NB- I'm only talking about real poker games against live players.

If you're considering playing poker against a 'house' program, you might as well reply to that nice Nigerian ex-oil minister's email, and let him know you'll be happy to have him transfer his 28 million dollars into your account, and you're willing to pay any up-front expenses he may require.

Ron In-a-sauna · Jan 12, 2003

Quote from kempo:

Ron;

Those are excellent points that you made and I won't argue them. Higher stakes poker tables definitely move quickly away from the black and white rules of the low limit games.

I'm curious about 21---Do you find that the counting advantage holds with multiple deck shuffles? And how many decks before it makes a differrence? Does the house reshuffle more often if they think that there is counting going on?

Nitro;

I haven't read Poker Nation. I looked at it on Amazon and it looks like a fun read.

kempo
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the number of decks will have an impact on your edge, but you cant still be effective even on a 6 deck. there are more important factors then number of decks and this is where many newbies go wrong. deck penetration and rules can have more impact than number of decks. i.e id rather play a 6 deck 80-90% penetration, double any 2, double after split, resplits, surrenders, etc. over a single deck with 40% penetration and unfavorable rules. there are many sucker games like this in vegas i.e. single deck they only deal once, only pay 6/5 bj and other unfavorable rules, but people are all over it b/c they think single is best.
deck shuffles dont mean much, its all random, unless you are trying to track aces. the house can and will play games with counters but you have to be real good and betting a lot to worry about that, and at that point they bar you. there are a lot of traders out there, and even at ET, who fit inot that eliteness. hope that helps. oh bst advice is to learn correct basic strategy to complete memory before conting, hi/lo is an easy count to start with then. there are lots of goo ways to learn, PM if you need any help.

Ron In-a-sauna · Jan 12, 2003

Quote from easyrider:

Another similiarity between trading and poker is that there is a rhythm to both. Over the long run the law of averages rules but in the short term there are cycles that no law that I know of can account for. When your hot your hot and when your not your not and if you can learn to press when your hot and pucker up when your not you will be ok.

p.s. he who has the most discipline wins!!
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def agree with this too, even though in cards its prob and stats you have just a good chance to draw a winning hand each deal. but there are ebb and flows so liek in trading when its not going well lower your size and take less trades, in poker play less hands maybe goto smaller stakes, and DONT TILT

Ron In-a-sauna · Jan 12, 2003

Quote from hii a_ooiioo_a:

I think we all have those doubts about the legitimacy of these online games. If we can get past those fears, it would make it easier for us to simply discuss the game itself.

I think that NETeller is probably a good way to go. Most of the sites seem to use it, and it helps us to keep from giving more information (like our credit cards) to those sites than we want to give them.
NETeller should also make it easier to move money from one site to another for those of us who start looking at several casinos.

Well, last night I sat in a play money game, and I got 3 good hands in a row, which I won with my usual aggressive raising. Came in with $1,000. But I found I was making less than $200 each of those three winning hands. Which is less than I would expect. I realized I was sitting in among a group of pretty good players. I'm sure it's going to be a lot harder in the real money tables than it has been in the play money tables.

I'm going to have to be much more strict about how I play.

Here's some things I'm working out:

There's a total of 1,376 combinations of two cards you can be dealt. One fourth of those combinations (344) are the ones where both cards are the same suit.
Also, the thing that's always true is that when two hands of equal value are presented, the one with the higher top card wins. Straights, flushes, pairs, full house, and sometimes even just plain "high card" when no-one actually has anything.

So although you know there are plenty of times when you can win because you had the 2 and the 3 to add to 4,,5,6, or even just by having a pair of two's, the fact is you're more often going to get burned by someone who had a series with high card above yours. So my thinking right now, is that in real money games I do not want to play a hand with anything lower than a 7 in it. I might bend that if the other card is an Ace. But generally I just want to insist that I fold anything 6 or below. That means of the 1,376 possible combinations of two cards, I am going to fold 800 pairs. Of the remaining 576 pairs, 144 are same-suit pairs.

If you have two cards that are the same suit and no more than 3 cards between them, they can end up making a flush or a straight. If I get two cards like that, I just go right in Raising as soon as I get them. If the first 3 flop cards don't include that same suit, then there's no chance for a flush in that round, but those two cards might still make a straight. If I don't use any card below a 7, then any straight I might get with them will have at least Jack as high card. I'm tired of getting a 45678 straight, just to be beaten by someone who had a 9. They'll have to have a Queen, King, or Ace to beat my straights now.

dont ignore position when determing what to play.

That's the foundation of my playing. If you want to watch me on the play money tables, I'm on www.pokerroom.com, my name there is Naughty&Nice.
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Ron In-a-sauna · Jan 12, 2003

the random card generators are crazy. i.e. i was dealt pocket bullies 3x in a row, one of which i drew to four of a kind. never seen that before on a real table in ten years of playing.
and to anyone talking about games other than poker or BJ start a new thread, has no place here; be warne the only game you can get an edge on is 21 b/c cards have memory, dice and roullete dont. and poker you are playing peolpe not against a house edge except of course the rake. just be warned, my bright eyed bushy tailed players.

hii a_ooiioo_a · Jan 13, 2003

Ok, well then maybe I should start a new thread. The free $10 promotion from the site I registered at on sunday finally came through. I played for an hour with it on the CyberStud Poker, about 100 deals.

I got from $10 to $20 in the first 20 minutes, then switched to Roulette, played two spins and lost $9. Went back to CyberStud Poker, got up to $20 again, raised my bets to $2, got up to $30, but then dropped back to $0.00 in about 10 minutes.

$10 at these games you are pretty much undercapitalized. But I did in fact get the $10 promotion, without having to deposit any of my own money. And I didn't get the feeling that the software itself was programmed to destroy me. CyberStud Poker still seems like an above average odds of being able to beat the game. You need to win three deals for each one that you lose in this game, which is just about what you can expect to achieve.

easyrider · Jan 13, 2003

Can anybody tell me how the credit card companies know these are gambling sites? Couldnt they just front the site with a nice respectable sounding company name or set up a separate leg for funds etc?