Please, I can’t breathe

Discussion in 'Politics' started by BeautifulStranger, Jun 21, 2020.

How Much Police Violence is Acceptable During an Arrest?

  1. Whatever it takes - Painful consequences mean change in criminal behavior

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. Enough to let the perp know his behavior is not appreciated.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Until the prep is handcuffed, “A little mustard” while retraining him can be ok.

    4 vote(s)
    66.7%
  4. Care should be taken during all phases of an arrest to avoid the use of excessive force.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Earnest efforts should be made to talk to the perp in an attempt avoid a physical confrontation.

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. userque

    userque

    Ok, well, to the extent that you were referring to my questioning his post:

    I agree with what you say above, except when it comes to repeating the same misinformation. And except when it's not a question of "understanding."

    The post was totally understandable, just 100% easily and provably false.

    So I guess my counter-argument to you is that we ought not cater to knowing-lies, regardless of how important those lies are to the author.
     
    #11     Jun 21, 2020
  2. I’m not quite following you. What specific examples of knowing lies are you refering to? Also, by cater, is it wrong to relay the seemingly valid good points of an author, even if they have some points that you don’t agree with?
     
    #12     Jun 21, 2020
    userque likes this.
  3. userque

    userque

    I highlighted the relevant part above.

    Tony corrected him.

    I said the above. Then you said the below (I emboldened the relevant text):

    Not sure we're on the same page. My post was about @Clubber Lang , not the author of your quote. I may refer to anyone that writes something, as the author of what they wrote.

    I am referring to intentionally and repeatedly making false claims. The knowing-lie I'm referring to is the very first bold phrase, in the very first quote, in this post.
     
    #13     Jun 21, 2020
    Tony Stark and BeautifulStranger like this.
  4. I just spent the last 2 hours having dinner with friends, one a retired cop from Cicero PD. For those that don't know Cicero is a burb of Chicago, typically corrupt politically and have about 17 different gangs who operate in the city, least according to the guy I was talking to.
    His opinion Floyd was straight up murdered and probably much more to the relationship between him and the cop than we're being told, or may ever find out. No surprise he thought Atlanta situation handled appropriately.
    He also said every single cop he knows to a man is looking to retire early if they're close, or looking to get out of it altogether.
    To the point of the thread. He said his training was once the cuffs are on there is no further need to restrain. Toss'em in the car and go. You can't do that, especially with help, you don't know how to do the job. They run with cuffs on, you pursue and run them down. If you can't catch them with the cuffs on then it's on you to get in better shape.
     
    #14     Jun 21, 2020
    BeautifulStranger and smallfil like this.
  5. Amun Ra

    Amun Ra

    This might be a little relevant to help understand black culture.



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    #15     Jun 21, 2020

  6. I love Stephen King, great fiction writer.
     
    #16     Jun 21, 2020
    Tony Stark, Bugenhagen and userque like this.
  7. gaussian

    gaussian

    Rough conclusion here.

    Attacking? sure. Non-compliance doesn't necessarily mean violence is necessary. When violence is necessary to enforce compliance (for example to get someone into handcuffs) only a necessary amount of force should be used. For example a stress position or pinning them to the ground. There is never a need to kneel on someones neck, choke them, or otherwise use potentially lethal force in order to secure an arrest due to non-compliance.

    Escalation of force is necessary. If the offender is physically violent (swinging punches for example) an appropriate response is a taser or mace. If the offender has a knife, the appropriate response is a gun.

    However, police officers have developed the habit of reaching for a firearm for anything. This doesn't even begin to address the "whoops wrong address" no-knock raids.

    This bullshit about "if you just didn't commit crimes none of this would happen" needs to stop. Every traffic stop I have ever been in has been dicey. Move too fast and the officer kills you. The "blue lives matter" trolls will tell you "they just want to get home safe". Well, so do I. A badge is not a license to kill and until accountability to enforced nationwide and police are stripped of their militarized equipment it will be necessary for civilians to think that every police encounter could be their last no matter how mundane or routine, and no matter your race or gender.
     
    #17     Jun 21, 2020
    Tony Stark likes this.
  8. Dont assault a cop and resist arrest, pretty friggin simple. Stop blaming cops and start blaming the criminals who assault them. The black community has the most violence by far and therefore they will have more interactions with cops. Thats the reality.
     
    #18     Jun 21, 2020
    Clubber Lang likes this.
  9. I attended elementary school, grades 1-4, in a tough area in New York City and grades 7-9 in a tough area in San Francisco. I was raised by my mom who received public assistance who dealt and used drugs. My belief system was influenced by my environment where I believed drug dealers good; cops bad. My mom could be, grin, considered on the Left side of the political spectrum. We felt the system was designed to take advantage of us. We also looked down at those few members in our family who were productive and who lived in New Jersey. They would sent us Christmas presents and other gifts, which we accepted for a while, but were resentful because we felt manipulated. We distrusted acts of kindness and friendly people. Fortunately for me, my mom realized she had issues and would send me off to my great aunt and uncle’s place, who lived in a small town, from time to time. In addition, my mom had a friend who became my God Father who displayed unlimited patience with me. Being able to see how other people lived helped give me a wider perspective on things, a better grasp of reality.

    In grades 7-9, students could be pretty unruly. One teacher who was fairly well respected by the students had his high end sports car vandalized by other students. This ended up creating a backlash against the vandals by the students. Yes, justice is important, incuding poor neighborhoods. It seemed to me that teachers who had a strong character, were honest, and demanded student effort were respected and had less trouble than other teachers, not including random shit.

    It is inappropriate to paint all Black culture as bad because of the chronic issues of a few. It is more likely when you are with a minority friend, including Blacks, you will truly have your back covered in a serious situation than a White. But let’s not categorize whole races. By a few, I mean 5 to 10% of students creating 80 to 90% of the issues. For the students with the issues, it is a long road for them to escape their situation. Unfortunately, many never escape and others ultimately get dragged down with them.

    As far as Hispanic children on average being better behaved, more Hispanic families have both parents and use religion.

    It takes years, as in decades, for a person to rewire what they learned as a child. Intervention programs need to address substance abuse in the household and expose troubled children to more positive situations involving willing participants. There are a lot of saints around that include teachers, the clergy, law enforcement, and other professionals. Frequent field trips and access to a variety resources that involves active participation at a very young age can only help. The cost to do this is enormous, but what has the cost been for all these years in terms of lives lost, missed opportunities, and pain?

     
    #19     Jun 21, 2020
    Bugenhagen, Clubber Lang and userque like this.
  10. Seems a bit inflexible.

    1. Should assaulting an officer always carry an immediate death penalty?
    2. Should resisting arrest always carry an immediate death penalty?
    3. By the way, can it ever be appropriate for an officer to attempt to instigate aggressive behavior by a known criminal through words, tone, or physical posture, etc., on ideas of creating a legal reason of getting the criminal off the streets as quickly as possible?
     
    #20     Jun 22, 2020