Please Help

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Ripley, May 9, 2005.

  1. Hey,

    I am a new futures trader. One day, I was holding onto a huge losing position and the losses were getting bigger by the second.

    Anyway, I held onto the loss hoping for a turn around because I was willing to lose the whole account. But, I never thought it would get to the point where I would wipe my account out. Finally the losses were right around my whole account that I decided to get rid of the position. Right when I was trying to get rid of it, I received "Margin Violation, can't place the trade signal" from my trading platform.

    Thus, I called the Trade Desk to liquidate it. But, the person who assisted me told me that he couldn't see any positions in my account. Thus, being a newbie I thought the broker might've automatically liquidated the position when it fell below my account value, so that the broker won't lose money. I told this to the Trade Desk person and he kind of nodded in approval. I told the Trade Desk person that the position still shows up on my trading platform. He felt that it could possibly be a Tech Glitch. Thus, he transferred me to the Tech Support to tell them to get rid of the position from my trading platform.

    The price further went against me. But I was out of it and I really didn't pay any attention to it, because this is all the money I had and I was willing to lose all of it to learn trading. Anyway, since the position was still showing up on my order platform the next day, I decided to give them a call and found out that they only existed from them the position that morning with a substantial loss and that I will be held accountable for it.

    Thus, I had to call Head Order Desk person many times to complain, and he was hardly in the office ever. Then finally around 10 days later, they asked me when did I call the Order Desk. Thus, they searched all the phone records 1 hour before and after from the time I told them that I called and they said they cannot find a phone call.

    Since I don't have a recorded phone conversation to disprove that, and do not have a order ticket #, they said I have to pay the money back. Is this fair?

    I cannot afford to pay this much and they are trying to cheat money out of me.
  2. traderob


    They are required to record conversations. Contact a regulatory agency.
  3. They said they cannot find a conversation where I called in. I gave all the details and everything about the call. And they advised me that I should get a $50 device to record future conversations.

    In my worst nightmare, I kind of knew this could happen. When you go against a corporate organization where their sole goal is to maximize revenue and profits; I, a little old individual is going to be screwed each and every time.
  4. Which broker are you dealing with? I am pretty sure that they are required by law to record every conversation during which a trade is placed.

    There are a couple of questions that arise out of your initial post. You said that you told the trade desk employee that you suspected positions might be automatically liquidated and that he 'kind of nodded in approval'. I am not sure how you saw him nod in approval over the phone.

    Also, you say you were transferred to Tech Support in order to clear what you felt was a 'stuck' position in your order entry software. You never mentioned what happened as a result of that conversation.

    Bottom line - you are almost certainly on the hook for the losses. Unless the amount is very large, a lawyer will end up costing you more than the loss, unless you get very lucky and obtain a judgement which includes your costs.
  5. Hello:

    I think your choices are few. You may decide to hire a lawyer, however they are expensive and ultimately you will find that you have signed a contract that requires arbitration. Alternatively you may decide to pay up, to flee the country, to shoot yourself in the head or jump from a tall building. If you like the dramatic, I would suggest you consider drowning, or volunteering to fight in Iraq.

    Having seen a few hopeless losers here at ET with basically the same story, I am prone to shake my head and laugh. In my first year, I found a way to lose $116,000 on a single trade. It remains a record that I hope never to eclipse. I paid up, learned to correct my mistake and went back to work. I know several very good traders who have blown out their accounts. Mark Cook is a well known trader, who lost most of his account and within a short time was able to replace the money and move on. As you evaluate your choices, you may want to consider that how others (your family, friends, associates) view you depends on which road you take from here.

    For success in the future, you will need two things, skill and a winner's attitude. Skill can be learned, but attitude is more difficult. Fortunately every moment in time provides you with the opportunity to decide to do whatever it takes to win. Frankly none of us really give a shit how you got here, but I will bet that we all would pay attention if you beat this and came back to tell us how you did it..

    Good luck,
  6. They said since they cannot find a phone call, that I never called. Which is completely a lie.

    I didn't mean nod, he said, "oh oh". I think we was new, because if he was a bit more experienced, then he would've been able to ask me some meaningful questions etc, and probably would've known that they don't automatically liquidate the positions. I just went there from Interactive Brokers where I used to trade stocks and they automatically liquidated everything and that kind of just reinforced that they might've already liquidated it.

    I told Tech Support person that I have a position that is not supposed to be in my account showing up on my order platform, and he just said everything will be taken care of.
  7. Thanks Lefty for all those good suggestions, will definetly keep in mind. Definelty sounds like you've thought very hard about the best possible and the most effective way to dodge a huge loss. I was thinking of putting the rail road down by the neighborhood for good use. :D

    Thanks for the encouragement man.
  8. Can you tell us which brokerage firm it is so we can avoid them?
  9. I don't want to post this in the public and thus I send you a private message. And if anybody else wants to know, just send me a private message and I'll be happy to disclose it to you.
  10. What type of position did u have? What contract were u trading? What was the size of the position and account?
    #10     May 9, 2005