Please enlighten me! Confused, young, lost. Input from all traders welcome!

iceman1 · Nov 13, 2011

Quote from IvoryOctopus:

No offense, but you sound either depressed, or a self-pitying, lazy kind of person. Oh "whoa is me" I don't know anything and I don't want to take the time and effort necessary, so might as well tell my sob story to a bunch of anonymous guys and gals on ET.com who maybe can help me save all the pain and frustration of learning the very basics of how to trade. There are only 10,00 books and other resources available to learn these skills. But, of course, you probably want to make a lot of dough, get rich quick; just don't have the patience to do the really hard work that so many others on ET.com have done. This includes losing money.

I get a real negative vibe reading your whiny posting about being "young", and suggest you stay away from trading for now. A 22 year old just won 8 million in the WSOP; a friend and neighbor of mine made about 30M at CME by age 25, with only a degree from Mather High School So what the H does "young" have to do with it??!!! So far as ignorant, everyone who starts anything new in some way is somewhat ignorant, no matter what the field of endeavor.

Suggest: why don't you try doing a little work, study and put some real time and effort/energy into learning the craft of trading. This may take a year or much more, just to get a feel. But since you mention you are "young".... no offense, but in today's world that can sometimes mean you want it easy, fast, quick with little to no real sacrifice or pain, and certainly NO HARD WORK.

If I am reasonably correct, and that is how you view trading, come back in ten years or so when you finally grow up (and if you are a male) become a man... willing to do whatever it takes, instead of posting some pitiful statement of how you are so young, confused, ignorant. LOL!

In other words develop more character, pride and self-respect. All characteristics of any successful or wannabee successful trader, whether young or older... IMHO.

Get all the Market Wizard books; read them twice. Get Reminiscences of a Stock Operator; read it 3xs. There are a few hundred others that you can find recommended on ET.com threads. Just take the time to do a search.

Of course that may take some time away from partying and drinking next weekend, and you probably don't want to give that up to learn how to trade.

bonne chance
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maxpi · Nov 13, 2011

Quote from IvoryOctopus:

So pretty much, I'm young, ignorant, and in many cases naive. Even moreso when compared to many of those that have been involved in the market for many many years. But where do I go and how do I shorten this gap?

I've been interested in trading for quite some time, and yet I feel like there's been such a barrier for me when trying to learn about trading or get started and involved.
It's always apparent of how unknowledgable I am, especially in many threads on the forum as terms, ideas, and subjects go right over my head. I feel such a lack of understanding of things, especially of the market mechanics that effect trading, as well as the trading strategies and signs that would cause one to make decisions. The ability to analyze information and know the effect and/or take an action to say the least. Even knowing what information I need in the first place!

But I definitely feel lost as to where I should go to learn what I need to know, I really wish I knew someone personally that could clear many things up but unfortunately thats not the case. I read as much as I can online but that only goes so far, and I've just bought A Random Walk Down Wall Street as well as The Master Swing Trader which I will soon read.

Now, what I believe much of the population does that are less involved are the buy and hold type that invest in something for up to decades for long-term profit, which is definitely not what I'm looking to focus on. I have the desire to go for much shorter terms and hopefully use trading as a source of side or even primary income in the future. But of course, I may be speaking in naivety as I'm not sure if I know what's even realistically possible!

I'm in college right now and am currently taking an economics course which is very informative coming from knowing nothing, and recently talked to my professor who seemed quite fixed that what I'm looking to do is quite unrealistic. He pretty much made the point that most traders who make a profit worth noting are either very lucky, very very well exclusively informed, or very very very smart. That there isn't really any factor of skill and that you can't really be "good or bad" at trading. To sum it up he pretty much said "If doing this is so possible why doesn't everyone do it?" How true is this?

Sorry if it's a long post!
TL/DR: How did you go from how much you knew starting out, to how much you know now?

All responses will be very much appreciated, thanks in advance.
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Just round up a whole lot of money and start trading. There's no way you can't become a great trader before it all runs out...

miss asian · Nov 13, 2011

good luck all traders in the world,.with different professions. at the end trading is their hobby

sensrbctch · Nov 13, 2011

been watching/listening for years. still i'm scared about this first step. however; believe this" it does not matter our specific fate is, as long as we face it with ultimate abandon" so with that in m ind, i remember it is always [1] person that does the most damage, or the most good. i have found that academia are payed well, so they pay others to invest for them. academia are notoriously at making poor decisions. good luck to us.

patoo · Nov 13, 2011

Quote from miss asian:

at the end trading is their hobby
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speak for urself, missy

IvoryOctopus · Nov 14, 2011

Quote from ASE1245:

Consider offering to intern for a trader for free. You will learn what he can teach, and maybe he will receive something in return from you.
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Where would you suggest looking? I can only think of online broker branches? I live on the west coast if that matters, in northern california.

IvoryOctopus · Nov 14, 2011

Quote from mfbreakout:

The problem with trading industry in general is that 99% of the educational material is JUNK and of no use. By the time a trader figures out a method to fit his/her personality, 2-4 years along with capital is under water.

I went through same process till i finally decided i will only read or pay attention to someone who is currently trading and has record to back it up.

Somehow i came to know about Mark Fisher of www.mbfcc.com and author of The logical Trader.

When i read he is has an MBA from Wharton with distinction, was the youngest pit trader at one time and per Paul Tudor Jones is the best pit trader ever, i shut down everything and its been a life changing experience. Following is from a fellow ACD trader named maverick74. Good luck.

Here is what I like about ACD. The idea in trading, like anything in life, is to look for the opportunity that others are not seeing. Head and shoulders, reversals, doji's, 200 day moving averages, moving average crosses, support and resistance, etc, everybody sees that shit. It's plain as day. Hell if you miss any of that stuff, CNBC will point it out to you to remind you. There is no edge in anything that everybody can see right in front of them.

So the idea is to become a good price action trader and ACD allows you to see price action better then any other method I have seen. This is why it's hard to back test ACD as many have tried because they are back testing simple binary action. The idea is to identify price action that is NOT obvious to everyone else. ACD is one of those things you just have to practice like tennis. The more products you watch, the better your feel will become.

Because ACD is a price action based methodology, others can't take your edge away from you. You know the old saying, if everyone does it, then it won't work anymore. That doesn't apply here. If you can learn to master ACD, you can keep your edge into perpetuity.
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Quote from logic_man:

I second the notion to go read the ACD Method thread. It is hands down the best thread on this board. When you understand what's going on in that thread, you will be ready to start putting strategies to the test, probably starting with a sim account.

Don't let your capital burn a hole in your pocket, i.e. don't rush into putting real money on the line. If you turn out to be very good at trading, there will be plenty of money for you down the line.
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Thank you two! I'll definitely look at it.

IvoryOctopus · Nov 14, 2011

Quote from GetMeThere:

IvoryOctopus: The answer is very simple--get a "paper account" (these are readily available with forex) and simply do your best at trading, and see how you do (although keep in mind that some can apparently win at paper trading but can't, for emotional reasons, with real money).

In the final analysis, the BEST answer to any question is a direct test.

But I do think that you've zeroed in on the problems with trading: there's no "trading school" you can go to, or courses you can take, which will "guarantee" you a living at trading. Winning trading is based on JUDGMENT--and modern education is WOEFULLY inadequate at training in judgment.

So you can't know whether you can be a success at it until you ARE a success at it (and sometimes, not even then: they are many traders who have done very well, only to then lose it all).
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If I'm not mistaken, that's sort of what I've been able to barely piece together but was unsure. It being based on judgment I mean. Of course as good judgment is based on being well educated as well as informed and adequate experience, and I believe those three things are exactly where I'm lacking.

How to acquire experience, from what I've collected so far seems to be trading in simulators or using the actual market and applying strategies/techniques through trial and error. But will just becoming book smart on strategies educate and inform me well enough to have good judgement? What about an understanding about market and financial mechanics? Don't some traders use just technical analysis to trade? Does that remove the need for market and financial understanding or is that just a preference and style thing?

Thanks again for your reply.

IvoryOctopus · Nov 14, 2011

Quote from iceman1:

Quote from IvoryOctopus:

No offense, but you sound either depressed, or a self-pitying, lazy kind of person. Oh "whoa is me" I don't know anything and I don't want to take the time and effort necessary, so might as well tell my sob story to a bunch of anonymous guys and gals on ET.com who maybe can help me save all the pain and frustration of learning the very basics of how to trade. There are only 10,00 books and other resources available to learn these skills. But, of course, you probably want to make a lot of dough, get rich quick; just don't have the patience to do the really hard work that so many others on ET.com have done. This includes losing money.

I get a real negative vibe reading your whiny posting about being "young", and suggest you stay away from trading for now. A 22 year old just won 8 million in the WSOP; a friend and neighbor of mine made about 30M at CME by age 25, with only a degree from Mather High School So what the H does "young" have to do with it??!!! So far as ignorant, everyone who starts anything new in some way is somewhat ignorant, no matter what the field of endeavor.

Suggest: why don't you try doing a little work, study and put some real time and effort/energy into learning the craft of trading. This may take a year or much more, just to get a feel. But since you mention you are "young".... no offense, but in today's world that can sometimes mean you want it easy, fast, quick with little to no real sacrifice or pain, and certainly NO HARD WORK.

If I am reasonably correct, and that is how you view trading, come back in ten years or so when you finally grow up (and if you are a male) become a man... willing to do whatever it takes, instead of posting some pitiful statement of how you are so young, confused, ignorant. LOL!

In other words develop more character, pride and self-respect. All characteristics of any successful or wannabee successful trader, whether young or older... IMHO.

Get all the Market Wizard books; read them twice. Get Reminiscences of a Stock Operator; read it 3xs. There are a few hundred others that you can find recommended on ET.com threads. Just take the time to do a search.

Of course that may take some time away from partying and drinking next weekend, and you probably don't want to give that up to learn how to trade.

bonne chance
More...

I appreciate your input. But, by no means am I trying to use my youth or my ignorance and where I stand as an excuse to not take any initiative. I'm simply just trying to communicate how green I really am. I'm fully prepared for a long arduous process and to lose money, what I've hopefully interpreted correctly from what I've read is that these things are inevitable. You said that "everyone who starts anything new in some way is somewhat ignorant, no matter what the field of endeavor" and that's exactly what I'm hoping others realize! When a mechanic explains whats wrong with the customers car, they should always underrate how much the customer knows to prevent holes in the customers understanding.

I can see that you're very aware and opinionated of the increasingly developing trend and stereotype for many older folk imposed on the current younger generation that is summed up by pretty much saying "kids these days don't want to work, they're all the get rich quick type and they just want everything now, America is doomed, etc." And I respect that! Amongst many of those I've seen my age, it's true. I've met too many of those where applying the term "going nowhere" is an understatement, confined by a mindset of arrogance and a misallocation of pride, to say the least. But please don't be so quick to presume this about me! If I caused you to misinterpret my first post, I'm sorry.

Thank you for the book recommendations, it means a lot. And I don't mind sacrificing the partying and drinking. It's about the bigger picture.
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FrankSlaughtery · Nov 14, 2011

Quote from IvoryOctopus:

I'm in college right now and am currently taking an economics course which is very informative coming from knowing nothing, and recently talked to my professor who seemed quite fixed that what I'm looking to do is quite unrealistic. He pretty much made the point that most traders who make a profit worth noting are either very lucky, very very well exclusively informed, or very very very smart. That there isn't really any factor of skill and that you can't really be "good or bad" at trading. To sum it up he pretty much said "If doing this is so possible why doesn't everyone do it?" How true is this?

More...

those who can't do, teach. f*ck your professor. if he could trade he wouldn't be lecturing a bunch of teenagers wearing pajamas about how it's so hard to trade.