Please ban Hapaboy.

A couple of non profanity laced gems from Putzie:

"AAA, being that I'm a guy who has a certain prejudice against all Americans who aren't of Euro descent."

I suggest you stay in Europe and live the life of an obedient, obligated socialist. I'm able to "live well" in America on my own dime. I have zero social conscious."

"Kill every Iranian that we can find."

 

I hate to read the kind of crap published in this thread.

Why can't people be reasonable?

I can go to dinner after work with a jew, muslim (Egyptian), Indian (Hindu), Italian (born in Sicily), and three mixed-blood Americans, and have completely civil discussion on ANY matter, and we all genuinely enjoy ourselves.

In fact, I do exactly that at least six times a month. And no one and no external political event could cause us to turn on each other or lose respect for each other. Because we're true friends.

It's too bad some people are so close minded that they have to engage in such broad brush strokes when they paint their own views of the world.

Don't be a bunch of whiney ass haters.

Peace.

 

I would like to clarify that I don't know what hapaboy wrote, so that nothing I said in this thread can be taken as a response to him, or as an accusation of racism or wrongdoing on his part. I was, instead, responding to ideas expressed by others in this thread, for example, the notion that only Muslims, and not non-Muslims, should complain about anti-Muslim hatred (assuming it exists). I was also complaining about the use of racism and hatred in general (not by hapaboy) to increase viewership of a website supposedly dedicated to trading.

The problem cannot be solved by any use of an "ignore" feature, because people whose reputations are wrongly attacked cannot simply ignore the resulting harm, and because hatred infects the entire website instead of just individual forums or postings which can be ignored, and because it is wrong to ignore the role that expressions of hatred and racism have always played in shaping the world around us. The photo of William Brown's charred remains was only one extreme and spectacular example of the consequences of hate speech, which permeate every aspect of our daily lives.

None of this is a First Amendment issue. Haters and racists have plenty of outlets on the internet and elsewhere. I think that giving them such an outlet, on a site supposedly dedicated to trading, but without adequate moderation of the discussions, makes the website less and less usable for purposes other than advertising and hating. People are not free to have serious trading-related discussions in an internet forum, where the limits on abusive behavour are so inadequate. The issue is not whether haters should have freedom of speech. The issue is whether a website, supposedly devoted to trading, should be a cesspool of abusive behavour and hatred.

EliteTrader will, with the passage of time, if it does not change policy, attract more and more racists and haters to its membership rolls. Baron runs the site on the basis of majority rule, and so, he will give the majority more and more of what they want: an outlet for hatred. Fewer and fewer actual traders will stay at ET, and especially the elite, like acrary, will avoid it more and more than they already do. Those who still visit the site for trading purposes will eventually be limited to newbies being taken by con-men operating on the site. If Baron wants to arrest this process, then he will need to find some higher moral principle than that of majority rule.

 

Jim, look you make valid points about the world at large and hate speech. However as it pertains to this board you are forgetting a few things here. One, hate speech seems to be limited to CC and P&R. I have not yet seen it leak out into the other trading threads. So the idea it's going to drive people away from this site is doubtful at best. Most traders stay as far away from the CC threads as much as possible. They never come face to face with the likes of Zzz and his ilk.

As long as Baron is able to contain the hateful posts on the p&r and cc threads, I see no issue here. I have asked you to post specific examples for Baron of where this so-called hate speech is, especially outside of CC and you have failed to do so. You keep saying it exists but never actually point it out. The only posts I Have seen this on thread were from streamlinetrade, the starter of this thread in which he was actually using hate speech. How ironic is that eh?

Also I find it laughable that ET is a magnet for haters all over the internet. LOL. Come on, that's reaching a little bit isn't it? I have said this before and I will say it again, you are dealing with a community of people on here that are frustrated they can't make a living. So they run down to CC and start calling people names. Usually they do this under another alias. I don't think it's an accurate reflection of the world at large. I think it reflects the fact that trading is very difficult and very few people on here have the emotional capacity to handle it.

 

Maverick74,

I am quite sure that you never asked me to provide specific examples of anything. I am very surprised to see you claim that you did ask me, and that I just ignored you. I think that if you look back at your postings, you will find that you never made any such request.

I think that trading related discussions are tainted by a great deal of hatred on this website. It is usually not manifested by ethnic slurs, in trading threads, but by other forms of abuse directed at specific individuals, instead of at ethnic groups. I think that hatred directed at individuals and hatred directed at ethnic groups are related forms of hatred, which result from the same ways of thinking, and that personalities who tend to indulge one frequently tend to indulge the other. I think that ethnically oriented hatreds in the Chit-Chat forum have attracted people to the website, who then behave disruptively and abusively in targeting individuals, rather than groups, in the trading threads. I think a lot of them are traders, but that a growing number of them aren't even traders at all.

I think you misunderstood me to be saying that people are throwing around racial epithets in trading threads. No, I haven't seen this particular form of hatred in trading threads. But I have seen way too much of other forms of hatred in trading threads, and I think that all of this hatred is related. I use the word racism to refer to specific forms of ethnic hatred, but when I use the word hatred, I am talking generally about a much broader category than what you thought I meant.

I assume that I don't need to provide you with examples of the type of hatred I am talking about in trading threads. I assume that you have seen enough of it to know what I mean, now that I have clarified my meaning, even if you don't fully agree with my view on it.

I think you were exaggerating when you wrote that I claimed ET is a magnet for haters all over the internet. No, I wrote that ET is gradually transforming itself from a trading website, serving traders, to a hate website, serving people who enjoy giving, receiving, and watching abusive behavour, including but not limited to racism, targeted both at individuals and groups. I recently wrote about this criticism in one or more other feedback threads, as well as mentioning it this one.

Your observations that losing traders engage in abuse, as an outlet for their frustrations, I think is all the more reason why ET will continue to deteriorate, if it fails to put some tighter limits on the abusive behavour, and if it fails to encourage participation by people who have something worthwhile to say. I think that you do, in particular, have worthwhile things to say about trading, but that traders like you are a dwindling minority on this website. You still seem to find some reason to stick around, but acrary did not and he is gone.

 

What utter nonsense.

That you claim I hate all Muslims is ridiculous. I DO hate Muslims of the type that wish to kill my family, friends, and fellow citizens. I also hate any other so-minded fanatics of whatever religious faith with the same fervor. And I hate those who support them.

I'll bet you I have more friends of differing ethnic and religious backgrounds than you do. I've lived in three Muslim countries and have friends - Muslim friends! - from all three, and some from other parts of the globe.

So please, do post links showing where I am being racist. If the "Questions about Muslims" thread is your only proof, you're in deep trouble. What is in that thread that is "racist"? Since when did immigration statistics become "racist"? Only a moonbat would make such a claim. Not only that, in the midst of discussing the maltreatment of resident foreigners in Saudi Arabia (which are widely documented, even you could find the data), you appear and call me a "racist f**k," a "hate-monger," "stupid," compare me to the KKK, and then insult my family.

The simple fact of the matter is you made a jackass of yourself in a variety of threads, and I was there to call you on it. For example, you claimed you never said the US would have joined the Nazis, that it was "thinking" about it, and I posted a quote of yours proving you had indeed said such a thing. So now you throw a tissy.

You whine more than my daughter, who isn't even 3 years old yet.

Oh, by the way, I am just mortified that you would post something like this in another thread above the picture of a young woman in a bikini:

How sexist and demeaning! I mean heavens, to refer to a young woman in such a way ..... just awful! I would also ask the mods to remember that many ET members could well be women. There is no need to explain how hurt they inevitably feel at Streamline Trade's comments, which will obviously result in them no longer contributing to ET in terms of its wider appeal in terms of trading related matters.

I demand you be banned!

Baron! Baron!

 

Pabst, as you may have noticed, I have basically stopped engaging you, mostly because I have said my piece and you know how I feel, I know how you feel, and we are not going to be changing each other's views on the matter of race. I am not going to go into what I feel is the mistake you're making in the statement above, or into what I feel can result from these perceived mistakes - I have already said my thing. It is somewhat difficult to reconcile your tone in the post above with statements such as the one about being prejudiced against Americans of non-Euro descent; difficult because you don't seem to be in the same class as the ranters on these boards. However, you have made no attempt at all to present yourself as non-racist, wouldn't you agree? I mean, what else does it mean when you say that you are prejudiced against such a broad category of people? Non-Europeans? Damn... that's a lot of people, isn't it. Kill every Iranian? There's an Iranian bass player that I know, guy was born here in Canada and he's got a couple of sweet kids and he can play the shit out of the bass and he loves to golf. Kill him too?

In my opinion, the far right's claim that all lefties play the racism card at the drop of a hat is somewhat disingenuous. In truth, I don't think you have too much of a problem being described as 'racist', do you? I would be fascinated to know your answer to the following question -

What does 'racist' mean to you? What is a 'racist'?

 

I am not anti any of those. I challenge you to quote me on any posts I have made that justify your allegations.

I am anti-Islamofascist and anti-moonbat.

I have many liberal and gay friends (sometimes one and the same, surprise surprise). Many family members are liberal, and I don't hate them at all for it.

Admittedly, I have previously used the term "liberals" when I should have instead used the term "moonbats," which to me means the radical left lunatic fringe of the liberal movement.

I fervently believe in Freedom of Speech, but believe in self-restraint in exercising it during times of war (i.e. NY Times).

And to say I am anti-Liberty is as preposterous as your other allegations.

 

I would say this is true for the most part, but the racist comments about Muslims go mostly unchecked.

Question:

If a group of ET members wanted to hold an on line meeting of KKK in the chat room, say after hours, late at night when no one is using it, or a say a private session in the chat room....would that be a problem?

You don't have to answer of course, but I am going to ask anyway:

What is your own personal position on racist and hate speech?

I say this because of the terms of use:

"victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of religion, gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, age, or disability."