"But there has been a standing and well known king of the hill rule that if you're in the league, you can't bet on baseball or you're "outta here". It bacame a cardinal sin after everyone went ballistic over the Black Sox and the league sought to reassure people of the game's integrity." People ( especially young people ) have to understand that this is Baseball's Biggest Rule and Cardinal Sin. Major League Baseball wanted the fans to know that the game being played on the field was not fixed and that the fans could come to the games, pay the price of admission, and know that the game being played was under the strictest scrutiny and INTEGRITY. As for Pete Rose coming out and saying that he lied for 14 years and now wants to come clean . . . How convenient. Just when he comes out with a book! Give me a break.
I agree again with you...but the question is ; Should he not be permitted in the HALL of FAME???? and I dont think the Rule you are talking about says anything about being banned from the HALL of Fame.... and I wasnt talking about beating ur wife; I was talking about ALOMAR and something that happened on the field, not off the field...SPITTING on a freaken umpire is far worse than betting or drug use..talk about the games integrity....peace
I think Pete Rose deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, but not while he is alive. He did a major disservice to baseball and he does not strike me as someone who truely gives a damn for any reason other then himself. And, he has not changed. He owns a racehorse and hangs out (and bets) at the Race Track. His apology just strikes me as "Im saying what you want to hear so that I can get what I want" type of thing. He also chose a real shitty time of year to do it IMHO. Brandon
Spitting on an umpire is WORSE than betting on the game or even drug use?? That must be an interesting scale you're using.
You dont get into the HALL Of Fame for being a great Man ( they would have to make space for me if that were the case ) ... The nice, generous, giving things you have done OFF or ON the field or the diamond or the arena are not taking into account when being INDUCTED why should the bad things be taking into account...that he is a scum is not up to me to judge or anyone when considering a person for a hall of fame spot...only numbers count...and the man has the numbers....what part of this arent we getting....
Thats agrravated battery I believe....try doing this outside the diamond and you would land urself in jail....how is drug use any different than betting on a game??? it makes it unfair to other players who dont want to take drugs..how about Slamming Sammy Sosa and his freaken Cork Bat ( sorry Pabst )...surely thats cheating wouldnt you agree...how is that not worse than betting ( remember we are talking about betting not throwing a game or shaving points).... need i even have to mention Daryl " the Nose Vacuum" Strawberry.....im using a normal scale, what are you using???
This is an interesting issue. I can see how an argument can be made either way. Betting on the games, assuming that he (Rose) only bet on his own team to win outright (different than betting to win with a spread, in which point shaving becomes a potential issue) is clearly wrong. It was a violation of the rules, and a violation of the spirit of the rules. It was nothing short of disgraceful. But it was not the same thing as the "Black Sox" incident. Fixing (taking a fall) was a different thing entirely. While morally reprehensible, Rose's actions did not affect anyone in the sense that aside from his unwritten responsibility to be held to a certain standard of honor, it was a "victimless" crime. As long as he played (and managed) to win and bet on that alone. As has been said already very frequently in this thread, Rose's actions, and the repercussions of his actions detracted from the integrity of the game. So there is no defense on that level. But still, as shameful as Rose's behavior was (and is), he did not do any harm to any individual. It was a shameful selling out of standards that are somehow special to our way of life. In a sense what he did was uniquely "Un-American"....I mean this is BASEBALL! It is "sacred". At least to a lot of us. Alomar's spitting on the umpire was a direct assault on an individual. It was disgusting, yes. But it also had a specific victim. Which Rose's betting did not have. So in that sense, Alomar's behavior can be considered "worse" I guess. BUT, what Alomar did was very spontaneous. It was a one time event. He apologized profusely. He showed genuine remorse. There was absolutely no pre-meditation. A "crime of passion"? What Rose did was absolutely "pre-meditated". It was NOT a one time occurrence. He did NOT demonstrate any remorse at all or even admit guilt for 14 years. And even now, it is with selfish motives that he has finally come forward. What he did, the wrongs, were only compounded by the lies. This is a guy that had it all. Stardom, money, the admiration of a whole country, everything. But he is also a miserable human being. His kid played t-ball on my stepdaughter's team when they were six years old or so. Rose came to help coach the team and cheer them on on a few rare occasions. This should have been something the other kids (and perhaps even more so, the other kid's parents) could have remembered as something special for all their lives. But it wasn't that way. He acted like an asshole. He could not separate who he was from what he was. Like being President, a man has to honor the office. Rose was an American Institution. But he dishonored what he was by being who he was. Is it fair to expect this "honoring" of ones self in a case like this? Maybe not, but if he did not want to do that, he should have stayed home. Not come to the park and be a nasty guy around the public who idolized him. Especially kids. And ESPECIALLY kids who were playing BASEBALL. His restaurant in Boca is now closed (the food sucked). But on the menu, there was a list of the records this guy held. It was mind boggling! He HAS to be in the Hall of Fame for his achievements. He would not be the first a-hole to be enshrined at Cooperstown by a long shot. But maybe only being admitted posthumously is a good idea. What he accomplished on the field is indisputable. But being honored by the game he dishonored in a ceremony he can revel in? No, IMO he does not deserve that. So let his records be acknowledged. Let him be immortalized in the Hall. But let it happen after he is no longer alive to bask in a ceremony he doesn't deserve. He has already been honored so many times in his life. Let this one thing be a just punishment. Which it seems it would be. It appears to be very important to Rose to be admitted to the Hal in his lifetimel. So not permitting this would be a perfect punishment. Very well tailored. Customized punishment is a great concept. Seldom is it available. This is one instance where it is. We, the American public, and Major League Baseball should take this opportunity to meet out justice that is so fitting. The concept of the punishment fitting the crime has always been with us. The opportunity to implement it so beautifully is rare. We should seize the opportunity. Of course I could be wrong Peace, RS
Probably technically correct in some states, but has anyone been prosecuted and found guilty of battery for spitting on anyone? Will grant you that it doesn't matter if technically it's on the books it's a crime, just curious if you know of any prosecutor that would waste tax payer dollars litigating something like that. But no - spitting on an ump is NOT worse than using drugs or betting. Anyway, here's the salient issue though - the league rules and EVERY contract in baseball (that means ALL of the contracts that Rose signed) explicitly say that betting on baseball will result in a permanent ban from baseball. That section of the league rules is also posted prominently in EVERY dugout and locker room. That ban even extends to baseball related events - Pete Rose couldn't even be included in an event held at an Atlanta game that was to honor various former players without first obtaining special permission because of his ban. There is no such rule/contract clause regarding drug use or other activities. An inequity? Absolutely. Should it be corrected? Absolutely. Not by waiving a magic wand and ignoring Rose's flagrant disregard for baseballs' cardinal rule but by filling the gap and instituting similar lifetime bans of those caught using illegal drugs or steroids, on field battery,
Taking Steriods is 'Premeditated' and is agaisnt the RULES of baseball and probably every sport out there....Hitting a ball with a cork bat is 'Premeditated' and agaisnt the RULES of baseball...how long has Sosa been doing this is anybody's guess and to think he will have a place in the HALL is absurd compared to what PETE did....he actually is using something to his advantage to get the numbers he needs to get into the HALL...doesnt this make any sense to you guys...DRUGS ( steriods) helps you put up numbers, betting doesnt...premetitaded or not; remorseful or not isnt the issue here....ONLY THE NUMBERS ARE...thats what the HALL Of FAME represents, not wehter you have made right or wrong desicions in ur life..Only people that were at the top of their games will be inducted, Can anyone say PETE wasnt...thats the only question that needs be answered.......peace