He made a mistake. He shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame for that mistake. His accomplishments in baseball were impressive and won't be forgotten anytime soon, but the Hall of Fame is not the place for his name. Keep Pete out.
The issue with Pete is how his actions of gambling effect the game, how they impact the integrity of the game. When people begin to think games are "fixed" because of the betting of a player or coach, you start to become the WWF, where all matches are fixed. Pete is a scumbag, and he should be in the hall of fame, with a sign next to his bust telling the visitors about all the scummy stuff he had done, how he hurt the game, etc. He should not be allowed to coach again, etc.
Lying about his gambling for the 14 years was not a mistake. Claiming John Dowd's report of his gambling hogwash was not a mistake. Trying to defame Fay Vincent for carrying out Bart Giamatti's wishes was not a mistake, it was malicious. Claiming that he signed an agreement where he couldn't discuss his gambling was a lie. He is scum.
I don't know the first thing about this Pete Rose. My first instinct is to think "who cares?! it's a game!." But I suppose I don't understand the underlying pyschological currents regarding this grand old American tradition. Anyway, so much for the p.o.v of an outsider. I'll just add that I hope ART holds himself to the same high standards as he holds the rest of the world to and that he's as quick to judge himself just as harshly when he inevitably next does the human thing and screws up.
Quick to judge? You don't see a behavior pattern with this guy? I do. It is always a hustle with Pete, always. Tell me how he has changed? Where is the contrition? Where is the admission of the harm he has done the game, and others along the way? Why is he not asking for forgiveness for his "sins?" Both Dennis Eckersly and Paul Molitor (both first ballot hall of famers) had substance abuse problems, but they came clean about it. You think Pete has come clean? He has given up his gambling habits that caused all the problems? There is a difference between screwing up honestly, and perpetuation of a mentality that thinks you can lie and get away with it.
I am inspired greatly by men like Pete Rose. Men who dedicate their entire being to mastering a craft, be it dishwashing, baseball, or speculation. To have a man not only excel, but play as well as the top 10 or 15 guys out of MILLIONS to step onto a field and play America's National Pastime, (the most revered game in all the world; save soccer) not be honored in the hall of fame, because some pompous fat fuck commissioner who couldn't carry Pete's jockstrap, let alone play ball, carried out a "rule" put in place 90 years ago because of the Black Sox, is not only bs, but a major travesty! I play a game that I have dedicated every ounce of my soul for the last 7 years to becoming one day great at, so I suppose I am somewhat compassionate toward the mans fallibility AND unlike ATR I do not have the luxary of thinking myself moraly superior to the rest of the world when I don't agree with their actions; for I have made too many, and will continue to make, my own mistakes until the day I die. Sure Pete didn't think he'd get caught and it would jepordize his chances of being endowed with the greatest honor baseball could place on one of their's, but if he had the chance to do it all over again knowing what he does now, he would surely have taken it all back and this is the very definition of a mistake. I'm gonna have to offer ATR a giant sized dick sandwich to feed his giant sized ego for spoiling my serene and joyful mood of 1/2 hour ago for calling a great man a scumbag.
Of course Rose is a scumbag. Afterall it was his welching that helped cause his betting to become public. However should the player Rose be penalized by the actions of manager Rose? What if the allegations had surfaced after his induction to the Hall? And most obviously as Commisso pointed out, there is a huge distinction between betting on a team you're managing to win vs. throwing a game. How would it be handled if Rose bet on baseball but not Red's games? Alex Karras and Paul Hornung were suspended from the NFL one year for betting on games they weren't involved in. Now that he's admitted it I would cut the baby in half. Suspend him from baseball for life but let the voters decide his Hall of Fame fate.
Rose is a great man? He was a great baseball player. O.J. was a great football player. Ty Cobb was a great baseball player. Jayson Williams of the New Jersey Nets was a great rebounder. Athletic excellence doesn't make a man a great man. At the end of his life, even Mickey Mantle confessed that he was not a great man, but a man who wasted his life as a drunk. That admission, may have taken away the fantasy for his fans, but if it helped others fight alcoholism, that would make him a great man in my book.
For those of you who feel integrity ISN'T an issue regarding entry into the baseball hall of fame, check this out from the "Committee on Baseball Veterans Rules." http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/veterans/rules.htm #10 is of interest. 10. Voting â The Committee shall consider all eligible candidates and voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game. On each of the two ballots, electors may vote for as few as zero (0) and as many as ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted. Thought you might like to read this.
When I say Pete was a great man, of course I was not speaking of his personal life or what he did off the field. I guess I should have made that clear, but I figured a bright guy such as yourself would have seen it as self-evident; for how can we ever truly know any celebrated celebrity/sports-star well enough to ever induce wether they were "great" people in their personal lives? I say he was great because of what his actions on the field showed, because in this often miserable world filled with such wasted talents, the likes of all the Lyn Biases, Darrell Strawberries, 'The Goats', and the countless other ones we never heard of -- he fulfilled his destiny to become one of the all time great players in one of the all time great games AND This alone is all I need to go on to stand firm in my assertion that Pete Rose was a GREAT man. I actually met Pete Rose when I was just a little boy. My father and two uncles brought me to a sports bar in Philly after one of the games, and though I don't remember much of this encounter, I did, even at this young age, know enough to regard him as an arrogant prick by the time we left the place. He was loud, arrogant, and pompous. He brushed my father off as if he didn't even exist, a man that was a big fan of him, but all this is neither here nor there and has no place in this. Perhaps it is true what Heraclitus say; "A mans character is his fate". And perhaps when it comes to the worldly affairs of men, Pete reaped exactly what he sowed -- BUT know this Optional, on a much higher plane, this man you regard as a scum-bag, is smiled upon by the Gods, for he was in accord with something on that field that 99 1/2% of the rest of the world will never touch, smell, or feel. If Pete were just a little more spiritual/intuitive and less of an ego maniac, he would realize this and tell baseball to stick their honor up their ass. Frowned on, but forever immortalized by men or smiled upon by the Gods? I'll take the latter any day, for it's less hollow... By the way man, your usually pretty good at fucking wit people, surprised you swung at the soft ball "he was a great man" and left the rest of the post as was.