Peru free trade agreement (H.R. 3688)

Discussion in 'Economics' started by ShoeshineBoy, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. Who is for/against the above? In general, I'm for free trade and believe it to be inevitable.

    For example, below is the argument of the good Senator DeFazio. However, I think his arguments are short-sighted. The rest of the world is globalizing whether we like it or not and all we can, by not entering free trade, is make ourselves uncompetitive.

    I also that we would have had even worse problems had we not entered into these agreements. Can you imagine if Europe and Asia purchased from China and we decide not to for example? It would be as foolish a decision as if we decided to tariff Japanese cars in the 80's and 90's.

    Well, that's my two cents. Let me know what you think of such an agreement with Peru. Agree? Disagree?

    Also, why Peru?? I thought it was Chile that was the wonder child of Latin America??

    "From Previous trade agreements like NAFTA, CAFTA and the WTO have led to the export of millions of high-paying American jobs to low wage havens like China and Mexico; an erosion in U.S. living standards; soaring trade deficits and an increasing reliance on foreign investors to finance these deficits, threatening our economic and national security; a significant erosion of U.S. sovereignty to international trade bureaucrats; and the dumping of subsidized foreign goods, including agricultural products, into the US.

    According to the Oregon Blue Book, by 2000, work at 57 Oregon plants had been shifted to Mexico or Canada in response to the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). Between 1997 and 2002, the U.S. government issued 112 Trade Adjustment Assistance certifications relating to Oregon layoffs caused by NAFTA. These certifications were for more than 12,000 Oregon workers who lost their jobs as a direct result of NAFTA. Looking at the numbers beyond just NAFTA, Oregon has lost more than 40,000 trade jobs due to failed trade agreements since 1994. "
  2. Excellent Commentary

    One must consider all the costs that have to be incurred in buying US products...and taxes are certainly one of the main costs...along with legal largesse...

    Structural changes must order for positive results for US labor...

    Personally...I think that the US should become a tax haven...eliminate the IRS...and only have a consumption tax....
    No individual corporate taxes...

    Industry would flock to the US in droves...and the US would rock...with no stopping it...

    When you add incentives for alternative fuels other than oil....and oil product substitutes are developed at equivalent Saudi Oil costs...then the game is over for the expensive production oil welfare they will have to get real third worldly again...

    Companies from Asia would be wanting to come to the US to produce and manufacture their goods and services...and would want access to cheap alternative energy...

    This can really happen...I think that it will...with the right political leadership...

    The dollar will skyrocket...from where it will buy a lot more EUROs anyway...

    I think that the US people are ready for change...

    Rock on...USA...
  3. You seem like a smart guy, why do you choose to be blinded. How can you support this stuff, and then actually be surprised that the US economy has nothing else going for it besides consumerism?

    Let's make something clear, the Japanese made better quality products when it came to electronics & cars during the 1980s. In case you do not know your history, when the Japanese manufacturing base first started pumping out products, they failed miserably, because they made cheap crap. Here is another little tidbit, the Japanese subsidizes their exports by higher pricing to their own people & a culture that always updates to the latest version. Last, even with the offshoring to China, Japan still has managed to protect a major portion of their industrial/manufacturing base. I wonder why is it that they have such a stable standard of living.

    USA has lost its industrial base and is losing its tech base. How is that good for the country? "Free Trade" & Globalism is nothing more than an elimination of the middle class and consolidation of power for the elite. Oregon has lost 40 factories. Do you know what they were replaced with? Prisons.

    Here is something else. Why is it that with all these labor cost savings, the corporations are getting rich, yet the quality of the products & customer service only go down? Most of these cost savings never reach the consumer, they just line the pockets of the wealthy.

    Really, this whole NAFTA and Free Trade Zone is such bullsh*t. Those sweatshops are absurd, their goal is to turn human labor into cattlelike labor. They are so vehemently opposed to any concept of worker rights or human rights, that it really makes me wonder. The supervisors for those sweatshops are complete sadists. I find it hard to believe that almost every single one of these operations somehow persists to form such harsh & abusive work environments by chance. These guys seem to come out of the woodwork everytime there is a Free Trade Zone. I don't know, if I was contracting out, I would want a sane person running my operation, not a sadist.

    That's not Free Trade, that's an enslavement movement. Why does any nation need a Free Trade Zone? In any of these nations were run by legit rulers, they would simply develop their own economy, instead of selling their people as serfs to the multinational corps. That is what the elite fear, hence USA & Britain have long meddled in the geopolitics of Latin & South America, Southeast Asia to establish puppet dictators. They also extract their natural resources at dirt cheap prices, but that's a different discussion.

    The best thing USA can do for its economy, outside of restructing the monetary system, is to re-establish its economic base, particularly industrial. This is not protectionism, it's common sense.
  4. I know a lawyer in Mexico who represents American companies when they have labor disputes. He said a lot of it is a sweatshop in his opinion. So there needs to be improvement in that area. But the idea isn't bad - it's just implemented incorrectly.
  5. You're blaming free trade and head-to-head competition with us losing some manufacturing? Sorry but there is no way out of competing: it's inevitable. Why even debate it?

    If there's one thing the last couple hundred years has proven it's that the best competitor eventually wins. Do you really think the rest of the world is going to buy our overpriced stuff when we don't buy from the low cost provider? Of course not. And in the long run, that will hurt us a hundred times more than what is occurring now.
  6. Free trade is based on the idea of nations producing what they do better than anyone else. That way, the whole world benefits. Go read the original thesis, nowhere does it say Wall St. funds expansion of foreign economies, and then ships our factories overseas. We are supposed to be producing what we do best. English speaking Chinese (it's coming) and Indians with educations will eat everyones lunch, because they work for peanuts. Wall St. is filling Analyst positions with Indians, that should raise a red flag. This is a race to the bottom. Watch, this country in 30 years will be like Mexico.
  7. Really? So once again, I will ask the same question. Why do Free Trade Zones need to be established?

    Let these countries develop an economy and offer their goods to the world. Just like Japan did, even though major infrastructure work post WWII was done by US military & contractors. Instead of creating mass sweatshops and letting multinationals take 90% of the gain from cost savings. Well, they aren't really savings, they are at the expense of third world population and the U.S. worker.

    You keep missing the goals that were achieved, and that is establishing a serfdom like manufacturing bases, where people are turned into cattle. Compare it to countries which established their economic bases from within, like S. Korea & Japan. That's why they enjoy a good standard of living and workers are treated like human beings. That's why their products win market share mostly due to quality work, rather than a slightly cheaper price. I wish Japanese car manufacturers would have bankrupted GM, it would have opened up room in USA for new motivated entrepreneurs to enter the field and start making quality cars.

    Instead in this country, manufacturing bases are offshored for the sake of corporate greed. You, as the consumer, are not getting a better quality product when this is done. It is not really cheaper. And the overall service is worse.

    You want to support Free Trade Zone in spite of the obvious results. I have yet to see any real positive, short of a stream of cheap crap to keep the consumers spending and spending, putting them further into debt. Really, who benefits from NAFTA and WTOs? Besides corporate executives, the corporations and the top 5%?
  8. Oh please. Nothing will change for the better, it's been established in the last 10 years. All this pressure on corporations has yielded little results. They either start lying or covering it up to appease the concerned consumers. It's even to the point where "Made in ***" are faked by putting a little piece of the product in Europe or USA, when it was really made in a sweatshop.
    The second these sweatshops receive any pressure to become more humane, the operation is shut down and moved to the next third world nation whose leaders are willing sell out their population.

    The best part about it is that these third world countries become held hostage by the WTOs & multinationals. Their local economies cannot support their populations anymore. Substinence farming has been beat down into poverty, when only 30-40 years ago it allowed families to live a reasonable standard.

    Wake up, you are using rhetoric to support this Happy Land idea of how great NAFTA and WTO are, completely avoiding the real life results. This is not new breakthrough stuff, this is at least 10 years old. Open your eyes, the trend has been set into motion, the results are clear all over the world. And you see the effect is has on your own country. So what's the argument for supporting this again? Because you want them here? That might be the next step.
  9. Think of all the jobs the International Highway from Mexico to Canada will produce!

    Good thing so many manufacturing jobs were lost - that way there is plenty of labor needing jobs!

    In fact, everything seems to have lined up perfectly over the last few years to do it. Amazing the ducks all lined up so well on their own!
    #10     Dec 5, 2007