PDT inquiry using different strikes/expirations ???

Discussion in 'Options' started by minorearth, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. Per the PDT rule for accounts under 25K, how many daytrades have been made in the following example below?

    UNG TRADES
    9:31 AM
    1 UNG Jan 18, 2013 4 put Sold for $47
    9:40 AM
    1 UNG Mar 16, 2012 4 put Bought for $3
    9:50 AM
    1 UNG Jan 18, 2013 4 put Sold for $48
    10:00 AM
    1 UNG Jan 18, 2013 6 call Sold for $66
    10:10 AM
    1 UNG Mar 16, 2012 7 call Bought for $2
    10:20 AM
    1 UNG Jan 18, 2013 6 call Sold for $65
    10:30 AM
    1 UNG Mar 16, 2012 6 call Bought for $6
    10:40 AM
    2 UNG Jan 18, 2013 6 call Sold for $66
    10:50 AM
    2 UNG Mar 16, 2012 6 call Bought for $6

    AA TRADES
    11:00 AM
    1 AA Jan 18, 2013 12.5 call Sold for $60
    11:10 AM
    1 AA Mar 16, 2012 12 call Bought for $4
    11:20 AM
    1 AA Jan 18, 2013 7.5 put Sold for $51
    11:30 AM
    1 AA Mar 16, 2012 8 put Bought for $3

    SLV TRADES
    11:40 AM
    1 SLV Jan 18, 2013 24 put Sold for $146
    11:50 AM
    1 SLV Jul 20, 2012 40 call Sold for $97
    12:00 PM
    1 SLV Jul 20, 2012 41 call Sold for $84
     
  2. I don't see any.
     
  3. My turds are floaters... is that good or bad? TIA.
     
  4. So a 'day-trade', per PDT rules when using options, involves a trade where the option that is bought or sold at a specific strike price, expiration date, and whether it was a put or a call, is later closed out that same day?

    (Ex. Buy a Sept AA 13 Call in the morning, and sell that same exact Sept AA 13 Call in the afternoon for a profit or loss.)
     
  5. Yes .... I do believe that is correct.
     
  6. johnnyc

    johnnyc

    yes, that is correct. if you open it and close it the same day then it's a day trade. you can close out a position you held overnight and then re-establish it and that is not a day trade. Open & close = day trade, close & re-open = no day trade
     
  7. So if I buy an AA Dec 13put option in the morning, then the only way it could be considered a day trade, is if I sold it that same day before the close. If I didn't sell it at the end of the day, but I did sell a Dec 14 put in the afternoon, or sold 100 shares of AA stock, it would not create a day trade situation. It is ONLY if I specifically sell back that Dec 13put, and nothing else?
     
  8. johnnyc

    johnnyc

    thats correct. otherwise every time someone traded a spread it would be considered a day trade, right? I think I recall reading once where a firm would consider the exercise and assignment of an ITM spread to be a day trade on the stock which is ridiculous. If there is a firm that still does that it's best to stay away from them.
     
  9. If you make a round trip in the same trading day, it's a day trade. If you do this four or more times in any five consecutive business day period, you're a pattern day trader. So just pair up your trades and see how many were round trips the same day.
     
  10. The first part I agree on but not on the second. If the close and re-open occur on the same day, that's a round trip.
     
    #10     Feb 19, 2012