I'm getting a lot more PM's than I can physically type responses to, so I figured I'd just make a comprehensive post here to detail my experience. I first started with Patak pretty close to when they first got up and running. I did 3 combines. Things were different then. The chat applet was ghetto, the combines were free, and you could talk to Mike (the principal, a floor trader at the CME) directly. Then I took a 3 month break for summer. When I came back, the topsteptrader.com branch had been spun off. They were now charging a deposit to 'make sure traders took the evaluation period seriously.' It was something like $40 (now I think it is double). At this time, they wanted you to do ~ 60% on your account in a month to get selected (it is now 80%). I did 3 more combines in this period. I only paid for the first one. The other times my performance was high enough that my deposit was rolled over. I cleared the 60% threshhold twice during my evaluations and was told to keep trading, which caused me to dip below the balance. Passing selection means they stake you with a 10k account. At the time, they didn't post this information, but it is now public here: http://www.topsteptrader.com/LiveTraderSetup.aspx The good part is that you get staked. They like to play this up as you having 'no risk.' But the truth is, anytime you have profits in your account in excess of your original stake, you are playing with and risking your money anyways. Part of my decision to quit was this math: If you do a banner year and get +800%, you are still making a paltry amount of money, and the splits give you incentive to maintain and attempt to grow the account with them. Myself, I was looking for something I could use as a career... busting my ass, being in the top 10% of traders and taking home <50k/yr pre-tax under a best case scenario just didn't seem worth it to me. Having your money locked up in an account and being forced to take an unfavorable split to buy groceries and pay rent didn't seem like a good setup. I know another prop, Trillium is a lot better about making sure their people have money to meet ongoing expenses. I was also having trouble trading the way the wanted me to. They want you to trade intraday because a 10k account can't be margined well overnight. The software, T4, also had problems handling more complicated trades than outrights. Anyways, Patak is making most of its money off of people rushing into combines and getting crushed. Through the chat, I saw hundreds of traders wash out. They have no interest or infrastructure to help you succeed. You have no access to senior traders, and Eddy and Mike will only give you vague and useless advice. Think about how the model works: They target college students and post on college job boards. These are people that by definition have minor and informal at best trading experience. They then set a very high bar of short-term performance, charge them what they can get away with, and let them flop. Hopefully, they get hooked on the game and come back for seconds. It is as legitimate as a US prop firm gets, but that doesn't make it a good deal. If you're looking for a career in financial markets, look elsewhere.
Wait a min.... 10K? 10K? Perhaps there's a smudg on my contact and I'm missing a few zeros...lol They want you to put up $40.00 US dollars? Something does not seem right with these numbers... ... ... .. . I'm not calling you out... more like questioning what the hell is going on over there... I mean crap, I would take them more seriously if they asked ME to put up 10K and then the best looking 'winner' gets 50 or 100K or a free piggyback ride over to the Cboe.. or something for heavens sake. Geesh. At that rate I don't know why anyone would screw around with it, I mean most talented product reps can push 100K on their first year, and they probably get to keep the $40.00! Well, thank you for your input, I'll keep to myself now....dribble dribble.
This kind of program isn't for current pros. However, I think the Patak model makes some sense. I did a 'training fee' futures program with another company but its a similar kind of deal, lots of sim trading and evaluation and small risk starting you out live with 1 YM contract. Depending on how you approach it, I think for the $80 It can be a complete waste of time or you might learn something interesting: * you suck at trading and need to improve somehow, try again Or * you might have a chance and it's worth someone taking a (small) bet on you $80 is a bargain when you get the data, sim environment, and the chance for an independent party to evaluate. I think T4 is a decent platform.
While 10k is not enough for overnight trading, one would need 25k to 50k, it is probably enough for day trading the futures. The real problem is the 2k loss limit and then they ship you back into the combine. In reality, you are getting 2k which is unacceptable. "Live accounts start with a balance of $10,000. If the account balance falls below $8,000 we will move the live trader back to the Combine. They will then have to complete the Combine objective before we will re-activate their live account." This terminology makes it unacceptable and makes the program out ot be a complete joke. If you are this good better to save $2500 and keep 100% of profits.
Your welcome. Sorry if I missed any questions in the PMs, the volume just got overwhelming. If anybody wants to pick my brain further, just post here.
I'm curious so I clicked on the link. If I'm reading it correctly, it said beginning account is $50K. Where does it say $10K? I like to know. I might try but if it's $10K it's a little weak esp for futures.. Live Account Size- $50,000 Daily Loss Limit- $-500 Max Position Size- 5 contracts Also, is it true they refund your deposit once you go live? I need to find the exact wording on the site. Also, if you don't pass the combine, do you have to keep feeding the machine $80 each month until you pass it? Hmm.. thnx