On its website, it says: "Note: Our equity partners do NOT ask for any capital contribution or risk deposit. We are requesting the recruit's time in our Combine......" then for the combine, it says "$120.00-deposit" Why do they contradict themselves so blatantly? One thing that puzzles me is that they charge you 120 dollars for trading a demo account. I don't get it, it's a demo account, nobody is losing equity partner's money, why charge traders 120 dollars? Totally a scam. the traders are already giving their time, you think they are kidding themselves? you think they have too much time in their hands? there is only one explanation: they make money on the deposit! it's a scam! OK, who is willing to trade my demo account for 60 bucks??? half of their price, good deal. Again, I will let you trade my demo account for 60 dollars.
Hey Gang, So full disclosure: I've actually been on TopStep/Patak for months It is a serious program. It took me months to meet the goal and quite frankly the discipline and parameters they set are strict but obtainable. There have been a lot of mis-representations and assumptions about the firm and I just wanted to provide some feedback. Sure you can Sim Trade for free on Ninja "trials" with brokers and what not but the amount of value you get for the $120 is pretty astounding. First of all the Chatroom has become a very good resource. They bring in Live traders from the floor or sometimes call up traders and discuss market thoughts and dynamics. They have truly built a community as well. There are sometimes over 150 traders in the main "Lounge" and some of the traders share their charts and thoughts on market direction. It is by no means a "call room" though. It is an educational room. They try to get people engaged with the markets by implementing mini "games" such as "You make the call" or "Best/Worst" trade of the day. Eddie the main broadcaster has been on the floor for over 20 years and provides neutral and entertaining insight. Along with Hoag another fellow Floor Trader/Broadcaster, they've been VERY instrumental in the opening hour deciphering Pit Noise and commentating on what the Pit traders and Banks are doing. Secondly the software you get is very efficient. It is not pretty but it gets the job done. There are many gripes to be had for sure...the stop placement and the moving DOM is really very annoying but like I said it was built by engineers and not User Interface people. I've been on the CBOT floor and besides Trading Technologies X Trader almost all other traders use the T4 software. It is efficient and not too many bells and whistles but it handles the volatility we've been having fairly well. Also even on SIM they instill a strict stop management program. They WILL stop you out of your SIM position on the COMBINE to enforce discipline. You will NOT be taken Live if you violate their stops too many times. I can talk about this more later for those interested. I've blown out my fair share of accounts due to lack of discipline, emotional trading or over trading. They make sure you are penalized for such actions. EVEN ON SIM. The value of having stupid trading taken away from you is worth the trouble. I am being completely honest I am not the biggest fan of the platform but it is efficient. Just NOT user friendly. Third - Market Data - For $120 bucks a month by joining the combine you get access to almost ALL Live Futures quotes. All CME Equity Indices NQ, ES, YM etc, Also you get GC, CL and all currency futures like the 6E as well. Take a look at how much this costs with Esignal, Qcharts, Tradestation and the like. It is cheaper than those guys AND you get a Chatroom w/Pit Noise and possibly access to capital if you can prove you can trade. I've been in some rooms that charge $200-400 a month...THOSE are questionable...are they really making money off trading or their members? They have seriously brought the barrier of entry to trading down to the masses. They are simply casting a VERY wide net and hoping to catch some good traders. It is a Scouting Agency... How long those traders actually stay is another matter...some will probably use it as a stepping stone to get to a "Big" shop and others may stay forever. However to be completely honest MOST will probably fail. That's trading for you though..we can't all be winners. By no means is this meant for everyone and I'm sure many "serious" traders will be turned off by some of the banter in the chatroom but it does provide a useful service. Because quite frankly if you can't make it past the Combine ie earning 6k in one month with $1k stops or the Accelerated Combine earning 2k in one week with $500 stops...maybe you really shouldn't be trading real money at all yet...at least day trading. They are looking for a fairly specific niche of trader. If your risk/reward ratio or your drawdowns cannot survive 1-2 contracts with $500-$1000 loss then this is not the option for you. I'm not saying you shoudn't be trading but this is not the firm for you. They give you the ability to trade up to 5 contracts and beyond..that is a lot of fire power that I don't recommend anyone new using the full 5 contracts. You should start with 1-2 and focus on certain 2 markets and build from there. I think I have to emphasize here: YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU ENTER THE COMBINE TRADING 5 CONTRACTS. That is simply asking to get stopped out by the risk manager. Start small build your way up. I passed my way through the Combine trading 1-2 contracts. It's doable...just NOT easy. Had this program existed when I first started trading I wouldn't have pissed away thousands of dollars on stupid days doing stupid trades. I used to have weeks and months of profitability but would blow out accounts due to emotional over trading and not adhering to my stops. Some days you will get "bad beats" and get stopped out or close to the stop limit but just move on and come back the next day. Quite frankly TopStep is instilling that discipline and I maybe using it as crutch but it is a useful crutch at this point in time. I'm sure there will be many loopholes people will find but this is a pretty transparent company. In fact, they have a daily session "Drill the Scout" where you can ask the Head Scout basically anything you want in regards to the company and trading. Obviously I'm very biased bout everything as I have been with the firm for months. They are a Startup so lot of bumps in the road to be had. Believe me I was VERY skeptical when I first found out about the firm. But they are VERY transparent. This is by no means a one size fits all firm. If your trading methodologies do not fit their risk parameters MOVE ON. If you cannot trade 1-2 contracts with $1k daily stop loss...you just aren't the right fit for this particular firm. That is all. They are not preaching that they will make you successful..they are simply giving an opportunity to those who are under-capitalized or don't want to risk their own money on new strategies. It is NOT a "training" firm...it's simply a firm providing opportunity to talent. If you can make it great...if not no big deal. You are out $120 for a few months . Cuz quite honestly if you show NO progress within 6 months of trading with them...then maybe this is not the right path for you. If the $120 a month is a big expense...then this also may not be the best use of your time either. I think as of this week they cleared over 20 "Live" traders...I don't know for sure...but they are doing something right if they are continuing to get new traders. I am probably still going to "Trolled" for this post but there are good people at this company and I just wanted to give my 2 cents. I'm "Mavin" in the chatroom btw for any fellow EliteTrader folks. Feel free to PM with any questions here or there. If anyone knows of any other firm providing this type of opportunity please let me know. G'Trading All!
Mavin, this is JKJK in TsT chat, what's up! You forgot to mention that you get your 120. back if you clear +3000. or better in the combine or you can roll it over into a new combine. The only way you lose money is if you can't average over 150. per day for four weeks. Fair enough. I plunked down 40. and did the one week tryout. Cleared 1632. on the week so now I'm in the four week combine only risking 40. and some time. No harm in that, plus the combine is a good place to hone discipline and stengthen consistency...you just have to find a way to make it work! One day at a time...
Having gone through a couple combines, I agree with the generally positive comments. I think it's a good system if you are inexperienced or struggling and you don't want to lose a bunch of money. A common theme is that the key is to survive so that you can make the learning curve. Well, you can 'survive' perpetually and have a continual chance of making money if you're good, all for basically the cost of a cable TV subscription. I would like to see a better scoring metric that doesn't make me want to have a few killer days early on to reach the objective. A sharpe ratio scoring maybe with a lesser $ objective. I think a good trader might sit on their hands for a week.
Why did the firm lower it from $8,000 ? And what is the significance of $6,000 ? Say someone did 12 combines in a row and all they could generate is 3,000 to 5000 on everyone. It would be really ignorant to not hire someone that consistent. Does it not seem strange that the goal is to make $6,000 in 20 days using only $1500 to $2500 worth of intraday leverage ? That's like me offering you a gig saying I will loan you $1500 and you only have to generate $78,000 worth of profit off of it in the next 52 weeks. 150 traders in the room at $120 a month sounds like a decent gig
Or be given the patience to exploit one's edge only when the opportunity arises versus being forced to meet a quota to generate commissions for the firm that is backing you.
I completely agree with you. A better metric would make more sense as sometimes there are just no trading opportunities. I imagine this is something they will change down the line. Lucky trading means nothing but they will get lucky traders with a strict profit goal.
Good points on all. I will ask some of the those questions in the room. I imagine if someone made 3-5k a month for 12 months straight they would "hire" them. However given the 150 "members" in the room I can't even imagine they are really making much money yet as many of those members are on the free trial and they have quite a few people on staff. I think at least 6 not including Patak himself who is from Nebraska btw...not that it would really matter if he were Indian... But generously let's say 150 people paying $120 a month that's $216,000 a year...given overhead and costs of staff...they probably aren't making a ton of money off that $216k. This is also assuming no refunds on the "deposits" It's a different business model and not fit for everyone...feel free to critique as that's the only way they'll improve though.