Again, I repost as I have modified some of its contents. Hopefully I won't need to change again in the near future. ;P ======================= Your experience will not change Mr. Market. Your experience will only change you. Mr. Market will not change to suit your trading system. You need develop a trading system to suit Mr. Market. Novices adapt their trading systems to their emotions, & no more. Intermediates adapt their trading systems to their emotions, & adapt their emotions to Mr. Market. Experts adapt their trading system to Mr. Market, just straight away. Novices won't learn from their own lessons. Intermediates will learn from their own lessons. Experts will learn from others' & their own lessons. Novices rely on their psychology to win. Intermediates trains their psychology to win. Experts ignore their psychology to win. =======================
This is the biggest praise I have ever received. Thank you! Thank you very much! My time spent is fully rewarded. PS: But the post doesn't specify whom he is praising, so it may be just wishful thinking on my part.
I have never left my state of calm. I'm a practitioner of laughing meditation. I like to incorporate humor into my posts. Sometimes it's a superior path to getting the attention of others. Just because I said... ...Doesn't mean I'm now flip-flopping and siding with you or anyone else. I honestly wanted to know what you consider yourself to be on your Novice/Intermediate/Expert statement. Which was it? I didn't hear a specific answer. I gave one though... Now I suppose I'm even more curious, where do you see yourself? I'm pretty sure I already know the answer though... And to reply to your question, No I don't agree with your statement. I will, however, do what few people on ET actually do, I will support why I do, and why I don't agree with it. Green = yes I agree, Red = No I do not agree. Let's play. Now I want to support why I disagreed. Numero Uno: Position Sizing. In theory, Simulators will help beginners to learn and/or calculate appropriate position sizing. In reality, Live trading will not always allow you to buy or sell the appropriate number of shares you intended to buy or sell. This is called a partial order. See also: d) and e) on page 14's a) through p) list. Numero Due: Execution Procedures. In theory, Simulators allow beginners to learn how the execution of orders takes place. In reality, order execution does not reflect Simulation. Some orders are filled almost instantly, and with the full number of shares as was requested. Some orders take many seconds or several minutes to fill. Some orders fill only a part of the intended number of shares. Some orders fill after several minutes, and then only are partially filled. Many orders are never filled at all. I'm not just talking about limit orders either, any of the above examples can, and do, occur with market orders as well. See also: a), b), c), d), e), and m) on page 14's a) through p) list. Numero Tre: (Decision) Reaction. In theory, Simulators allow beginners to learn how to take the appropriate action and react to a specific movement in the market. In reality, this is not always possible. When you have decided to react to a move in the market, whether it be a decision to buy or sell, you will not always be able to obtain the entire position size, or exit from the position as soon as you wanted. When volatility increases, supply and demand becomes skewed. This is why there are so many rapid fluctuations in price over such a short period of time. The reason traders are able to obtain the biggest price movements in such short periods of time is directly related to volatility. Supply becomes restricted, demand signifigantly increases, and the result is a large move upward in the price of the stock. 1000 people want to buy it, 250 want to sell it, and somewhere in between, 750 people get left out. This is a major reason why large price fluctuations trade on very little volume, and are accompanied by slow price movement periods that trade on such high levels of volume. Just because you wanted to react to an occurance in the market, doesn't mean you will be able to. See also: b), d), e), n), and p) on page 14's a) through p) list. Numero Quattro: Psychology. In theory, the mindset of trading with dollars that aren't real can be ignored, and replaced with the mindset that every fake dollar is as important as every real dollar. In reality, a very, very select few people may be able to do just that, but many, many people will not. period. I've already given my take on the psychology of trading with fake dollars versus real dollars. Besides, you asked me to ignore the psychology aspect so I will. My answer? No. Successful Sim trading can help a new trader, this is true. BUTT, most new traders, regardless of whether they trade Sim or Live, are simply not prepared. Plain and simple. They often know what is happening, but rarely know why. That, along with the inability to adapt to change, is why the vast majority of traders fail. Now, as far as your association with traders who start Live being intermediates, and traders who start on a paper trading repitoir similar to yours being Experts... That's just plain false. It's Wrong. It's Not true. And its down right criminal to imply so. I'm not saying that skipping Sim trading will make any new trader anything but a novice. Regardless of how the vast majority of traders start trading, Live or Sim, they're almost always wrong. Those who start out UNPREPARED will lose. They don't get it. They are stuck on their ignorance, and they refuse to adapt. AGAIN, I'm not saying either way is right, I'm saying most people are just doing it wrong. Sim trading has its downfalls [See page 14's a) through p) list.] Most Sim traders overlook these when starting out Live. The ones who decide to learn why they're losing, or not trading as well as they were (since you insist there is at least one trader who started out profitable), will figure out what the differences are. Those who do will usually "Get it." Those who don't just keep trading, with a dumbfounded look on thier face, until their account runs out, or until they give up and start paper trading again. The latter example will not fix the problem. I think... As far as the rest of your post... smoking is a bad analogy. Many smokers smoke until they die of cancer. Same thing here with most unprepared traders, wait maybe that actually was a good analogy... Forget humor, this is down right comical. Ha.
Agghh... As said previously, I will take a pessimistic approach when I handle order fill. So I won't overestimate my situation. Hmm... but I don't understand why most, if not all, you mention cannot be experienced in sim trading (I mean demo trade in real-time, & the software will check for your order fill!). Eg: your virutal order may not get filled when the price suddenly spikes. Anyway, even if you trade real, there's really nothing we could learn to improve our order fill. The problem lies on the market, not us. If the market has 25 orders at this price, you can only fill 25 orders but no more. Maybe just learn not to be greedy and reduce your size to 25 market orders only whe you see such situations. Market selection is much more important in this regard. If you get stuck at that point, a high volume and very liquid market is the cure to your position sizing & order fill problems. The only "real" problem I could think of is you never know how influential your orders are in the market, but unless you have lots of capitals or you trade thin markets, it's hardly a concern you should be waste time on. You're not going to trade by your own influence, right? ------------ As to psychology, I think I have already explained about my reasons/points in depth. To me, I get most, if not all, I want just from sim trading. Thus it's hard for me to persuade myself sim trading won't work as far as psychology is concerned. You may call me freak, but that's me. You see the point? However it's no surpirse most people can't understand or disagree (that's why it's still called hidden value, & so there're more losers than winners!). If you are one of them, it's nothing wrong to follow the intermediate approach. As you are someone who needs some first-person pains before grow-up, then trade live, but trade small. Anyway let's agree to disagree. Be well!
WmWaster, Do you consider yourself a guru or what? You obviously consider yourself to be an expert. Yet you can't, or at least choose not to, elaborate on how Sim traders should go about overcoming the inefficiencies of the market in their paper trading plans. You know what I'm talking about (hint, hint... page 14) And you aren't exactly answering my questions, as I have yours, you just keep playing hopscotch around them. You state an opinion that you and your methods of paper trading are so superior, but you refuse to CLEARLY explain why. I have come to the conclusion that you do not speak english as a first language, but despite your inability to form coherent sentences, you sure say a lot with out saying much of anything useful. I have an idea. How about we both agree to let some others chime in with their take. Let's keep the board clear of what is obviously turning into an argument, and let's just listen to what others have to say. I was starting to really relate to some of the things JimmyJam had to say, among several others, but it seems we are overcrowding this thread. How about we sit back and hear some responses from others for a few days? So, Others, let us know what your take is. Throw something else out here for everyone to chew on. Thanks.