Pairs Trading

Discussion in 'Trading' started by jcstylin, Apr 12, 2007.

  1. Fair enough Don. I don't see the problem in offering what every JBO offers, including VTrader and Echo; namely, haircut on options.

    So these 1:1 and 25% restrictions come from Goldman?
     
    #101     Apr 16, 2007
  2. They don't "mandate" any particulars, but since we have historically traded so few options/futures, the whole "package" (including pricing) needs to be adjusted for these products.

    Don
     
    #102     Apr 16, 2007
  3. Pair trading is a near-attenuated strategy that is the day trading firm owner's best buddy.

    You see, pair trading used to be a near risk-free opportunity. You'd short one stock and buy the other of a correlated pair that exhibited mean-reverting tendencies once they diverged by some std dev measurement. And this used to occur regularly. Now, since everyone and thier mother knows what pair trading is, these situations are much fewer and farther between and the divergence much much smaller than it used to be. The consequence of which is two-fold:

    1. You need to get into sick size in order to make money, and ;
    2. It’s riskier now than ever because the std dev spread which signals a trade is smaller than it ever has been and when it expands even more, you’re exposed to serious losses.

    But Don Bright loves it so – forcing you to buy a ton of shares on 2 stocks. That commission whore. Whenever a charlatan touts something like this, it should be treated as a contra-indication.
     
    #103     Apr 16, 2007
  4. tito

    tito

    Could you explain why you think that pair trading is not a viable strategy for the trader? Do you think that mean reversion, as defined and practiced by most pair traders, is unreliable?
    Thanks.
     
    #104     Apr 16, 2007
  5. ...or simply spread out and trade 20 pairs at the same time, instead of that single one. Now the risk suddenly have dropped somewhat...
     
    #105     Apr 16, 2007
  6. Sorry, but once again, this is nonsense. Our traders pick their size, limit their number of layers (or some simply trade one layer). We encourage "crutch pair trading" which cuts commissions in half. Your information is either just wrong, or perhaps not understood, either way, it's just silly.

    If traders don't make money, they tend to go away...how smart would it be to encourage them to go away?

    And, I suppose those reading this stuff are better off listening to name calling children, with nothing of value to add. And, if you have something serious to discuss, then let's do it...I'm always glad to make myself, and crew, available for any type of serious trading discussion.

    Don
     
    #106     Apr 16, 2007
  7. stereo70

    stereo70

    Don Bright wrote:


    I heard otherwise re: GE/HON blowup -- primarily that it wasn't "portfolio traders" whose positions were assumed by Bob.

    Don reminds me of Tony Snow(job)...
     
    #107     Apr 16, 2007
  8. stereo70

    stereo70

    Don Bright wrote:

    LMAO!
     
    #108     Apr 16, 2007
  9. Heh -- I'll vouch for that.
     
    #109     Apr 16, 2007
  10. nitro

    nitro

    That is Risk Arbitrage, and while it is a cousin of Statistical Arbitrage [a misnomer because their is no arbitrage to it at all], doesn't entail the same risk. Pairs trading [stat arb] is far riskier than Risk Arb, which is probably why the position size in the pairs don't get as big as they do in Risk Arb.

    What is tragic is that, because the people that handicap these mergers are so good at it, most traders throw massive size at them, building _huge_ positions. When the deal is broken, you can be sure there are also broken traders. They did everything right - it is just that their number came up...Nothing you can do.

    nitro
     
    #110     Apr 16, 2007