Pabst question about execution

Discussion in 'Trading' started by jem, Aug 16, 2002.


  1. Let's settle it with a street fight:

    You get a swiss army knife and a positive attitude.

    I'll be moody and sour with an aluminum baseball bat.

    Positive attitude does not mean jack crap, and the only confidence worth having is confidence that is earned by the dedicated application of your mind or the hard toil and sweat of your brow.

    If you do not understand this you are a fool. What am I saying; you obviously don't understand it. Or worse, you are just picking a pointless fight with me because you have little man's disease.

     
    #11     Aug 16, 2002
  2. Pabst

    Pabst

    I have removed Dan's name from Commisso's great post. Dan seems to get it. Dark I'm surprised!! Commisso is describing the bane of traders. I've made and LOST as much money as anyone on this board. We're not describing newbies or as Livermore would put it the "permanant sucker class". We're talking about here, at least a half dozen of us who are seasoned good traders, insightful guys, whose performance would be clearly enhanced if not for the humanistic responses mentioned by Commisso. Trading is an art not a science. If not some guy with a black box would own the world. Please, all of you, respond to Commisso's quote, with insights as to how you deal with these situations.
     
    #12     Aug 16, 2002
  3. stu

    stu

    Just a thought darkhorse.

    If you were to have enough imagination to deal with those potential pride events NOW,

    that way you MAY stand a better chance to do the million bucks ?

    Then you would be a better person and a better trader.... sooner
     
    #13     Aug 16, 2002
  4. What a schmuk...

    I'm not just sitting here at my pc theorising dude, I say what I say because I have directly experienced it.
    perhaps unlike you, i was most certainly not born with a silver spoon. with the kind of life i used to lead, the kinds beliefs i had about life itself, about myself, my attitudes to the rest of the world...i was a sure bet for the penitentiary.
    My change in attitude did not come AFTER i'd tasted some success...that is just ridiculous. I would never have even attempted to take the actions that I did before I changed my thinking - my ATTITUDE.
    I didn't decide to become a trader to try and improve my attitude...shit, i was never even aware that such a thing as a "trader" existed
    it was only because I finally realised that it was my ATTITUDE, my outlook on life, that was keeping from enjoying a better life that I came to know about such things as trading..

    thought precedes action dude. the actions one takes are determined by what one thinks. to a large degree, what one thinks is determined by the attitude he already has. changing attitude is ESSENTIAL.

    you are making yourself sound stupider and stupider with every post on this.
     
    #14     Aug 16, 2002

  5. Stu:

    I am dealing with my issues now, I just expect to continue dealing with them in the future also, because I know I am human, and certain elements of the human condition cannot be 'fixed,' only dealt with and reduced over time. Everyone has certain achilles heels, and few of them are instantly fixable no matter what Tony Robbins says.
     
    #15     Aug 16, 2002


  6. silver spoon? where did that come from? i didn't come from easy street either, should we swap sob stories?

    i have directly experienced what i'm saying too, I've been following the markets for seven or eight years and trading them for almost four. so why do you crap on my direct experience and then want me to respect yours?

    it sounds like we are talking apples and oranges here. i was talking about false confidence that did not have any grounding in knowledge or experience. determination is a totally different thing and is the driver for attempting to gain confidence in the first place. determination to give it your best shot is what enables you to MAYBE get confidence later. but determination/ will is what you start with.

    The best approach is the realist approach: maybe this will work, maybe it won't, but i am going to give it everything i've got. If things are working, my confidence will rise with time. If things aren't working, I will reevaluate and regroup or eventually hang it up.

    it seems that you missed what i was saying in your hurry to come over here and start another fight with me.
     
    #16     Aug 16, 2002
  7. Confidence with out competence is futile. That pretty much sums up your point.

    I totally disagree. I say that holding a positive expectation in your mind that, come what may, I WILL do this is the first step. History has proven that the greatest successes came when people had confidence in themselves before undertaking great endeavours. That believing that you can or will be able to achieve your goal - despite the naysaying "realists" - is essential.

    What is determination but a state of mind? Is it not the same as an attitude? Of course it is. Now, what do you have to say about this?

    I rest my case.
     
    #17     Aug 16, 2002

  8. I am the first to admit I may have come off as insensitive on this issue, because I don't have any issues with discipline and trading. None. I just don't. I never lift stops, never trade for revenge, never trade because I'm bored, etc. etc. etc....my response to that kind of stuff is similar to what Spock might say: 'such actions are highly illogical.'

    It's not that I am good at resisting temptation- I just don't feel temptation to break my rules. I change and modify my rules from time to time as I grow and my methodology evolves. But switch up midstride and blow my plan? Doesn't happen.

    I am an emotional person with a wide emotional range, so its not a stoicism thing. I think when it comes to trading my knowledge is what keeps my feet firmly planted. I look at my trades like a mathematician would look at an equation, or a scientist looks at the properties of chemical compounds.

    I know other guys who never break their rules so I'm not a freak show in that regard. I think the key is understanding as much about the markets as possible and as much about your methodology as possible. The more you understand, the less tempted you are to do something illogical or out of line with your understanding.

    That's why I am so big on internalizing things too. I have to really wrap my mind around something, get a 360 degree view of it and a bone deep sense of it, before I am willing to rely on it.

    The deeper your subconscious integration, the more consistent your overall line of action can be. Instead of fighting the temptation to lift stops, for example, try studying probability and market movements and risk analyses, embrace risk until you are blue in the face and you have that 'eureka!' moment where you say I thought I saw it before, but now I SEE it in ten foot tall letters. At the end of the day, I still think its a knowledge thing.
     
    #18     Aug 16, 2002
  9. monee

    monee

    A little Zen...


    You cannot apply the principles of Zen until you know the game perfectly inside and out.
    Having the proper attitude of Zen calm and confidence does no good if you do not know the game.Zen will not make up for, or offset incorrect poker play.As a result, there is a certain amount of ordinary, old fashioned work involved in mastering the game--a certain amount of sweating the white beads before the days of tranquility come along.


    quoted from Zen and the Art of Poker
    by Larry Phillips

    The reason for this post is I think that BOTH Zen and skill are neccesary for success in the market ,life ,golf ect...
     
    #19     Aug 16, 2002
  10. I think we are getting down to semantics here. Consider the difference between these two statements:

    - I am good at XYZ.

    - I could be good at XYZ down the road if I really work at it.

    Our difference on the meaning of realism is semantical also. Realists are not naysayers by default. For me, a realist is not necessarily a pessimist at all. A realist is someone who sees things the way they 'really' are, good or bad, for better or worse.

    An optimist says 'don't worry, things will work out.'

    A pessimist says 'why bother, things won't work out.'

    A realist says 'I don't know if things will work out or not, but if I work like a sumbitch and give it my all, then maybe I've got a good shot. Let's get our hands dirty and see.'
     
    #20     Aug 16, 2002