Outstanding article must read.

Discussion in 'Wall St. News' started by nitro, Aug 30, 2009.

This is not your fathers recession

  1. I strongly agree with this article that there are no new jobs.

    49 vote(s)
    67.1%
  2. I disagree with this article. See my posts below.

    9 vote(s)
    12.3%
  3. I don't know

    2 vote(s)
    2.7%
  4. I don't care

    13 vote(s)
    17.8%
  1. I think this is close to 100% correct. Sure, we will "come up with something"... lots of things, actually. But with the labor cost differential between here and low labor cost countries, we'll never get the lion's share of the benefit.

    America's middle class grew in a rather enclosed system. Things were made here and consumed here. There wasn't a genuine alternative.

    Then, I guess beginning with NAFTA when outsourcing got rolling in a big way, bringing 500 million former peasants into the labor force to compete for our 20-30 million middle class jobs really turned our situation on its head.

    Seems the BEST we're going to be able to do is to find a minimum-wage type job for the majority of displaced workers... and newcomers to the work force, as well.

    The theme of the Depression will be, "Not enough jobs for everybody...not even minimum wage ones".

    Consider that against (1) our desires for a bigger and stronger middle class, (2) tax receipts vs. budget shortfalls at all levels of government, and (3) government's attempt to "paper over" the shortfalls.... and well, the outlook is dire.

    Hope I'm wrong, of course. :(
     
    #51     Aug 31, 2009
  2. This is what will lead you to war, even if it isn't anymore their interest because they are more creative than you could imagine... the first one to get free energy will rulez all the other... !
     
    #52     Aug 31, 2009
  3. bidask

    bidask

    what! did u know 95% of all microsoft windows used in china is pirated? this is just one example. who's getting busted?


     
    #53     Aug 31, 2009
  4. piezoe

    piezoe

    As things stand now, virtually everyone who wants to, and is willing to work for it, can get either a college or trade school education regardless of means.

    But many people, though they say they want an education, think that going through the motions, even if by chance they actually graduate, is all that's required. They don't want to put in the hard work required to become educated in either liberal arts or the trades.

    Perhaps it is time to put more responsibility and accountability on students and less on teachers and institutions!

    If education after junior high became more of a privilege and less of a right, as it used to be, and still is elsewhere, then perhaps we would get better results.

    I don't know if this is true, but what is being done now does not seem to work well.
     
    #54     Aug 31, 2009
  5. We all want to be the "eaters", we'll get robots to do all the work for us (starting with the Chinese), and we'll just hang around the orgasmatron all day.

    Need a leader...:D
     
    #55     Aug 31, 2009
  6. piezoe

    piezoe

    It is no secret that there are no longer enough U.S. citizens going into science and engineering graduate programs to satisfy the demand. These disciplines require too much dedicated study for the income one can earn upon graduation compared with say degrees in finance, business, or medicine. The result is that many of our top science and engineering programs are populated with foreign students who are willing to put in the necessary hard work.

    Consequently, if you want to hire only "Americans" for some of these highly technical jobs you will end up with a low level of competence or else have to pay considerably higher salaries to attract good American students into these fields. I don't think American corporations are ready to do that.
     
    #56     Aug 31, 2009
  7. You're a proven idiot who spewing nonsense because it is too much stress on your tiny brain to actually think.

    Great Depression was not caused by protectionism but by a rampant growth of money supply and subsequent sharp contraction of it.

    Protectionism, contrary to the academics, does work and has worked. Like USA during the Industrialization era and Japan during its boom years, as well as currently. Protecting the nation's manufacturing base is key.
     
    #57     Aug 31, 2009
  8. piezoe

    piezoe

    We are in a global economy and to survive we must learn to compete. There are ways to do that that do not involve cheap labor. We don't have cheap labor. We must learn other ways.

    There is a great lesson to be learned from the transformation of Du Pont during the 1970's.

    Prior to Irving Shipiro, the first non-technical person to head Dupont, and a lawyer, the company was arguably the most innovative corporation the world has known. Prior to Shipiro, Du Pont had a tremendous effort in basic research at its Wilmington DE experiment station. The list of Du Pont innovations that came from basic research is staggering and the company had a tradition of hiring the cream of the crop of American Ph.D. chemists, and chemical engineers. At least one of their chemists, maybe two, won the Nobel prize. A very much appended list of DuPont inventions includes cellophane, rayon, dacron, duco lacquers, neoprene, nylon, teflon, mylar, orlon, freons, lycra, delrin, kevlar, nomex,tyvek, latex paints and on and on.

    However, during the recession and energy crisis of the 1970's Shipiro was elevated to President of the company at a time when their debt needed urgent restructuring. Shipiro promptly began a shift in research emphasis from basic to product oriented. He wanted his scientists to work on projects that would soon impact the bottom line. Ph.D. scientists involved in basic research were laid off at the beginning of his reign. Whereas from 1902 to 1973, when Shipiro took over, du Pont's growth exceeded the GNP. By the time Shipiro stepped down in 1981 du Pont grew no faster than the GNP. Although Shipiro brought the company through a difficult time, and it is still one of the great chemical companies of the world, in my opinion, du Pont's basic research program has never quite recovered from damage done by Shipiro's short-sighted emphasis on the here and now and the bottom line.

    Perhaps the history of DuPont is in some measure the history of industry in the United States as business types took over the reigns of highly technical corporations and insisted on ever increasing quarterly earnings to the detriment of long range goals.

    Feel free to fill in your own examples. I can think of several more.
     
    #58     Aug 31, 2009
  9. S2007S

    S2007S

    Wake me from my sleep when you find out where these innovations might be, please show me the jobs that will help the economy on the road to recovery.

    Millions of jobs created over the last 2 decades will never exist again, the only way the u.s. economy will grow is by means of bubbles, bubbles seem the only way the u.s. can grow in its own fantasy world. If the fed had taken a few steps back and didn't take rates down and create boat loads of liquidity then maybe I could say there was a chance the u.s. economy could grow without the help of low interest rates and monopoly money injections into the system.

    Believe me,

    THIS TIME.............

    ITS DIFFERENT.....................
     
    #59     Aug 31, 2009
  10. aegis

    aegis

    Well, then stop giving these jobs to H-1B's who are willing to work for peanuts. The demand for these positions will rise along with the pay as it should. An engineering major should be able to earn more than a business major, but that certainly hasn't been the case in recent years. Why would anyone pursue a degree in one of the most difficult areas of study to earn the same salary as an accountant or a nurse?

    There needs to be an incentive within the system to attract talented people to these fields. As of right now, those incentives aren't there. Engineer's salaries top out early in their career, and a good percentage change careers after 10-15 years. There must be a good reason for this. Upper management in America has always viewed engineers as just a notch above skilled labor.
     
    #60     Aug 31, 2009