Out Today Market Making Scalping Manual

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by JigsawTrading, Jan 30, 2020.

  1. JigsawTrading

    JigsawTrading Sponsor

    We have some very exciting news today. Lots of you will know Gary Norden, maybe from his books:
    In terms of his credentials, they are impressive:
    • Youngest ever trader at the Yamaichi Securities in London at 18.
    • Senior Trader for a number of Investment Banks in London.
    • He was appointed Head of LIFFE Options for UK Bank Natwest at 23 – leading them to become one of the dominant firms in that space.
    • Traded on of the largest convertible bond books (ING).
    • Traded options and futures at the trading pits at LIFFE, for many years, trading his own money.
    • Now consults to Investment banks, Hedge Funds and Exchanges.
    • He is a keen poker player.
    • Is currently in the process of setting up his own hedge fund NN² Capital
    For a long time people have been wondering "exactly how does Gary Trade?". Where does he get in and out? What is Market Making Scalping exactly? It's a question I get asked a lot.

    Market Making as a form of trading is a dying skill. Not many people do it. Not because it doesn't work and not because HFTs made it impossible. Mostly it's because a lot of prop firms push their traders towards spread trading. After all, the firm can make money on commissions even if the trader doesn't profit.

    Gary occasionally teaches these skills but it's just a few people a year. He is also very selective, he will only teach traders that are well-capitalized and not under time pressure to make this work. So if you went to him saying "I've got enough money for 3 months, after then I'll lose my house - please teach me this so I can get out of this mess". He'll turn you away because trading is tough enough and learning to trade under that sort of pressure is impossible.

    I've long been nudging Gary to put something down on paper, to lay out to people what Market Making is and he's finally created the only guide to the Market Making style of Scalping that we know of. This is the result of decades of trading information and you won't find this information anywhere else. It's available only from Jigsaw Trading.

    This style of trading does not use charts, it does not use price levels, it is high frequency, it's not something you can add on to your existing style of trading (unless you are a scalper) & it will take work, perseverance and reviews to make it work for you.

    The manual is not cheap, it is certainly not for everyone.

    For more information, take a look at the following page that lays it out in more detail.

    Note - there is a discount of $50 with Coupon code Scalper50, that will be available for the first 2 weeks only.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
    tomtr27 likes this.
  2. qlai


    I've seen some of his free presentations and he sounds legit. Anyone has any first hand experience to share?
  3. tzachi



    What's your skin at this promotion? (for a full disclosure if there is a need for one)
  4. JigsawTrading

    JigsawTrading Sponsor

    Gary wrote it, we are the distributor. Hence " It's available only from Jigsaw Trading." in the text above.

    A whole host of reasons to do it that way but that's basically our 'skin'.
  5. 2FT


    Four posts in and you are already using that "Jigsaw Tone."

    Do you get a commission per sale of the manual. Y/N?
  6. JigsawTrading

    JigsawTrading Sponsor

    Yes, it's a business relationship. Gary wrote it, we are selling, promoting it and sharing the revenues. Gary has the knowledge and we have the sales & distribution infrastructure in place. It also matches the sort of trading our product was built for. So, it's a relationship that makes sense.

    As for the "Jigsaw Tone" - no idea what you mean. I did point out to your fellow poster where in the original post I mentioned we were selling it. I had assumed readers would understand the implication that this also means we are earning a percentage of sales.

    I hope this now sorts out any ambiguity about the fact that we are indeed the sole seller of this manual and we are sharing the revenues.

    I sincerely apologize for any misunderstandings and hurt feelings caused by this oversight and any tonal errors in my statements.
  7. qlai


    Let's see him make a video trading first. As everyone knows, scalping has become very difficult especially for retail.
  8. JigsawTrading

    JigsawTrading Sponsor

    Interesting statement - could you expand on why everyone knows that scalping has become very difficult? From my perspective, it's because 'scalping' has become a fairly generic term, that covers a lot of stuff that doesn't go on in the professional world. My take is that it's been diluted with nonsense.

    I can tell you that interest rate spread trading basically died for many when interest rates plummetted but I know many people scalping volatile instruments that do quite well.

    Not that this manual is geared towards NQ/CL type scalping but I'd be interested in hearing what scalping overall has become very difficult.

    Note - this is only directed at Futures trading and I can understand how the whole dark pool/paying for order flow has made scalping stocks problematic.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  9. qlai


    Short answer: fast retail/prop has no longer technology advantages they used to have over slower retail and buy-side.

    Longer answer/discussion:

    First, let's make sure we define scalping in the context of this thread. Here's one of his videos:

    "It's effectively a style of market making"

    "Using specialized platforms and software"

    "Our edge is over retail trader, not institutions"

    "We try to pick off badly placed orders"

    So picking off badly placed orders has become difficult even for high speed Algo traders. Institutions getting better at not placing/keeping badly placed orders while HFTs are getting faster at picking off badly placed orders.

    I have no doubt you do, but are they using his method? Many forms of trading is categorized as scalping nowadays.

    How latency sensitive is his method? What instruments does he trade? What platform does he use - Jigsaw? Just because the method is valid, doesn't mean that it can actually be put to practice. For that amount of money, it's only fair to ask to see it in practice. Just my opinion.
  10. JigsawTrading

    JigsawTrading Sponsor

    Good stuff and well thought out. Thanks.

    If you had a Trump tweet just come out and the market is blowing 5 ticks a second, you would not be trading this style.

    HFTs always come up in these discussions. Look at the depth of the ES right now and consider what this means in terms of HFT participation in Futures markets.

    HFTs aren't giving up the spread and buying at market. Front running is allegedly outlawed. Bidding an equities market, buying order flow off TD Ameritrade and then canceling that bid before executing that flow is not illegal. That's where a lot of the money is in HFTs, in Futures they are just the Freddie Kruger of "why I lost my shirt". The depth just isn't there to indicate high HFT participation in futures markets at the moment.

    In terms of latency, without revealing too much - you are assessing market conditions & then bidding or offering markets (which is what market makers do) and then making a decision to exit, scratch or hold. If you do that in treasuries, you can be more turtle than hare. Latency isn't that relevant. If you choose DAX, then obviously latency and your own reflexes would come into play.

    For markets - Gary prefers markets that have correlated markets. But his mentorship students can choose their markets, there is just additional edge in having correlated markets to watch.

    This is not for everyone but Gary is setting up a prop firm for people to execute these techniques. So his money is going where his mouth is. It's just a style of trading. A lot of people always look for the "smoking gun" when we post about products here but this is a valid style of trading that takes just as much work as other valid styles of trading to implement. This is not a magic bullet and nobody that buys it today will be making money on Monday.

    There's techniques for moving markets and techniques for two-way trade. I would advise anyone that doubts Gary's credentials or thinks he'd risk his standing in the professional world with producing this product to simply not buy it.

    We never expect this to be high volume and if you click on the page in the original post, there's plenty of attempts to tell people that it's not for them. It's just a valid style that is not well known, it still works and Gary is a master at it. It's not the only style and it'll suit some more than others.

    For platforms - it's DOM oriented - so obviously that's why Jigsaw is involved. Crappy DOMS need not apply.

    Once again - thanks for the questions and politeness.
    #10     Feb 1, 2020
    qlai likes this.