Our Troops Are Dying For This?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by AAAintheBeltway, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. While the afghans bitch and moan every time a "civilian" gets shot, they think this kind of thing is perfectly ok. Someone explain to me again why we are sending our troops over there, why we support this government and why we are willing to risk our troops lives with crazy rules of engagement to try and avoid alienating any of these monsters.

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    Taliban Order Stoning Deaths
    By ROD NORDLAND
    Published: August 16, 2010


    KABUL, Afghanistan — The Taliban on Sunday ordered their first public executions by stoning since their fall from power nine years ago, killing a young couple who had eloped, according to Afghan officials and a witness.

    The punishment was carried out by hundreds of the victims’ neighbors in a village in northern Kunduz Province, according to Nadir Khan, 40, a local farmer and Taliban sympathizer, who was interviewed by telephone. Even family members were involved, both in the stoning and in tricking the couple into returning after they had fled.

    Mr. Khan said that as a Taliban mullah prepared to read the judgment of a religious court, the lovers, a 25-year-old man named Khayyam and a 19-year-old woman named Siddiqa, defiantly confessed in public to their relationship. “They said, ‘We love each other no matter what happens,’ ” Mr. Khan said.

    The executions were the latest in a series of cases where the Taliban have imposed their harsh version of Shariah law for social crimes, reminiscent of their behavior during their decade of ruling the country. In recent years, Taliban officials have sought to play down their bloody punishments of the past, as they concentrated on building up popular support.

    “We see it as a sign of a new confidence on the part of the Taliban in the application of their rules, like they did in the ’90s,” said Nader Nadery, a senior commissioner on the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission. “We do see it as a trend. They’re showing more strength in recent months, not just in attacks, but including their own way of implementing laws, arbitrary and extrajudicial killings.”

    The stoning deaths, along with similarly brazen attacks in northern Afghanistan, were also a sign of growing Taliban strength in parts of the country where, until recently, they had been weak or absent. In their home regions in southern Afghanistan, Mr. Nadery said, the Taliban have already been cracking down.

    “We’ve seen a big increase in intimidation of women and more strict rules on women,” he said.

    Perhaps most worrisome were signs of support for the action from mainstream religious authorities in Afghanistan. The head of the Ulema Council in Kunduz Province, Mawlawi Abdul Yaqub, interviewed by telephone, said Monday that stoning to death was the appropriate punishment for an illegal sexual relationship, although he declined to give his view on this particular case. An Ulema Council is a body of Islamic clerics with religious authority in a region.

    And less than a week earlier, the national Ulema Council brought together 350 religious scholars in a meeting with government religious officials, who issued a joint statement on Aug. 10 calling for more punishment under Shariah law, apparently referring to stoning, amputations and lashings.

    Failure to carry out such “Islamic provisions,” the council statement said, was hindering the peace process and encouraging crime.

    The controversy could have implications for efforts by Afghan officials to reconcile with Taliban leaders and draw them into power-sharing talks.

    Afghan officials, supported by Western countries, have insisted that Taliban leaders would have to accept the Afghan Constitution, which guarantees women’s rights, and not expect a return to Shariah law.

    The stoning deaths were confirmed by Afghan officials in the area on Monday. Mahbubullah Sayedi, a spokesman for the Kunduz governor’s office, condemned the executions, and said there was ample provision in Afghan law for prosecuting someone if they were accused of adultery or other social crimes.

    “We have courts here, and we can solve such cases through our judicial organizations,” he said. “This act is against human rights and against our national Constitution.”

    The couple eloped when the man was unable to persuade family members to allow him to marry the young woman. She was engaged to marry a relative of her lover, but was unwilling to do so, according to Mr. Khan.

    Mohammed Ayub, the governor of nearby Imam Sahib district, also confirmed the stoning deaths, which took place in the local bazaar in Mullah Quli village, in Archi district, a remote corner of Kunduz Province close to Tajikistan.

    The couple eloped to Kunar Province, in eastern Afghanistan, staying with distant relatives, but family members persuaded them to return to their village, promising to allow them to marry. (Afghan men are legally allowed to marry up to four wives). Once back in Kunduz, however, they were seized by the Taliban, who convened local mullahs from surrounding villages for a religious court.

    After the Taliban proclaimed the sentence, Siddiqa, dressed in the head-to-toe Afghan burqa, and Khayyam, who had a wife and two young children, were encircled by the male-only crowd in the bazaar. Taliban activists began stoning them first, then villagers joined in until they killed first Siddiqa and then Khayyam, Mr. Khan said. No women were allowed to attend, he said.

    Mr. Khan estimated that about 200 villagers participated in the executions, including Khayyam’s father and brother, and Siddiqa’s brother, as well as other relatives, with a larger crowd of onlookers who did not take part.

    “People were very happy seeing this,” Mr. Khan maintained, saying the crowd was festive and cheered during the stoning. The couple, he said, “did a bad thing.”

    A spokesman for the Taliban, Zabiullah Mujahid, praised the action. “We have heard about this report,” he said, interviewed by cellphone. “But let me tell you that according to Shariah law, if someone commits a crime like that, we have our courts and we deal with such crimes based on Islamic law.”

    Mr. Nadery, from the human rights commission, pointed to a string of recent such cases of summary justice by the Taliban. In northwestern Badghis Province on Aug. 8, a 41-year-old widow, who was made pregnant by a man she said promised to marry her, was convicted of fornication by a Taliban court. She was given 200 lashes with a whip and then shot to death, according to Col. Abdul Jabar, a provincial police official, who said the killing was ordered by the local Taliban commander, Mullah Yousef, in Qadis district.

    President Hamid Karzai’s spokesman, Waheed Omer, said: ““President Karzai was deeply saddened and grieved when he heard that news. Nine years ago and we still see the Taliban doing events like that in Badghis.”

    Time magazine focused widespread indignation on Afghanistan recently by putting on its cover a picture of an 18-year-old woman from Oruzgan Province whose nose and ears were cut off by her Taliban husband after she had fled her child marriage to him.

    Amnesty International condemned the latest stonings, calling them the first such executions since the fall of the Taliban in 2001. “The Taliban and other insurgent groups are growing increasingly brutal in their abuses against Afghans,” said Sam Zarifi, an Amnesty International official.

    http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/re...ople/n/rod_nordland/index.html?inline=nyt-per
     
  2. Muslim on muslim violence doesn't count.

    It's the same as a racist democrat or bill clinton sexually harassing an intern.
     
  3. Wait'll they get back and their resumes are responded to with
    "...sorry Kilroy, we've been sending your opportunity overseas for years, and keeping the difference."
     

  4. George W. Bush "Islam is a religion of peace."
     
  5. Our troops in the ME are dying MOSTLY because Bush wanted to be known as a "war president". All the rest was a smokescreen to justify little pee-pee ego. :mad: :mad:
     
  6. Eight

    Eight

    I used to try to listen to Air America... it was like reading posts like this one all day and some of it was from our elected leaders!!
     
  7. Let's deal with the here and now instead of ritually blaming Bush. I agree that he made huge mistakes, both in afghanistan after deposing the taliban and in going into Iraq in the first place. At the time however, both moves were popular and supported by both parties. In particular, the democrats have made a point of saying that afghanistan was the "right" war, obama included. The issue is what do we do now?

    My point here is twofold. One, we are sending our soldiers into a hellhole, then needlessly endangering them by ridiculous rules of engagement forced on them by commanders far from the battlefield. The reason for this madness, I almost would call it treason, is to win the hearts and minds of the local afghans. We heard this first in vietnam and in every insurgency/terrorist campaign since. To my knowledge, it has never been a winning tactic, but self-appointed geniuses like McCrystal and Patreus keep sacrificing troops to it.

    The second point is that afghans are brutal animals from the dark ages. Much of this of course stems from their religion, which for some reason we encourage, but the fact is they only understand force and terror. This is a country whose main export is heroin. They hate the central government we are trying to force on them, and with good reason. It is as brutal and corrupt as the rest of the country.

    I see that we have an interest in not letting the country become a base for terrorist operations, but other than that, we are wasting our time, money and lives there.