Discussion in 'Financial Futures' started by Alphafuturestrading, Jul 5, 2019.
Ok, we are all ears. Will be appreciated by many I'm sure.
Unfortunately, this was a somewhat overlooked post. When I first started out trading - I scalped Bonds in the Pit. There were CBoT supplied monitor screens installed aside the Bond and Note Pits with the Cantor Fitzgerald OTR Cash Treasury markets - and for good reason.
to be honest..it takes a long time before one finally sees the realities of trading..for most of course it is too late..as most forget that without money in the bank..you cannot trade!
all one has to do..which of course is not easy..is step back and ignore all the hype and bull..just look at the titles of the threads on the home page
I have spent many years trading with different people..some knew a small bit.. others hadn't the first clue..but there is always one out there that knows what he is doing..problem is befriending such a person as any serious trader is not going to part with valuable information that easy..why take the chance!
if one plays the numbers correctly one can stay in the game..but one will never make anything really worth talking about until the strategy or approach is perfected so that the majority of trades opened are low risk..with a high profit potential..this tit for tat trading is really a mugs game..but as mentioned previously..only if you are a mug..of course
like your good self..I will stay on my current work with analyzing volume..as it is volume that moves price..always will..so it is definitely worth while learning as much as you can about it..so that it can help in attaining that low risk/high reward trade as much times as possible
from my investigations so far..most of what is offered out there at exobarant prices are not required..once you can get the correct data and get it into Excel.. then you can customize it as you like..and can also set up your GUI as you like..which I believe is very important in relation to understanding the data you are looking at..with most of what is out there..you might as well be looking up a cows ass
Have you tried http://flowalgo.com? Maybe there is realtion to order flow
Sam Seiden who is known as Supply/Demand guru doesn't use Order Flow or Foot Print chart. He only uses his eye balls to visually identify Supply/Demand areas. He must have a reason why.....
1. He doesn't have money to buy Foot Print chart.
2. He's now too old to learn something new skills.
3. His business is already selling like a hot cake and he doesn't want to bother anyway.
4. He tried it already and found it a BS.
How do you know what he's looking at specifically? Maybe he's calculating the footprint in his head? I've read a few of his articles awhile back and I remember him making analogy of two stacks of orders - buy stack and sell stack - whichever is larger. Sure sounds like footprint/orderflow stuff. I haven't paid for his content, so maybe my understanding of what he is teaching is incorrect. BTW, never seen him trade live which makes me skeptical of anything he teaches.
You cannot determine the origin and purpose of ANY “footprint”. You’re deluding yourself if you believe otherwise.
In fact - large specs purposely cross orders all the time in order to create a false bias illusion and to induce other traders to buy or sell like puppets.
Brokers also cross orders all the time. Perfectly legal in the futures market provided it’s done on the screen in the market.
Algorithms generate stacked bids or stacked offers in order to create the illusion of buy side or sell side bias imbalance. It’s rampant in electronic markets.
Footprint is just the tape organised on a graphical manner. When you look at Volume profile you look at the footprint which is just the tape which is just Markets orders which are just what make bid/ask move (along side with liquidity ie Limit orders of course) which is why all markets are an exchange between buyers and sellers.
The fact that somebody does not use it or look at it does not change any of those facts. The fact that they are algos and 80% of some markets are not made by humans but algos still does not change the mechanism which makes any market go bid/ask and does not stay a flat line.
Anyone is fully entitled to decide order flow is useless and not to look at it and unless trading is automated it is not worth a while.
Fine. I know some people who do very well just looking at candlesticks charts and news and nothing else and who do very well (they don’t instagram or go on TV to talk about it), some who do very well with Technical analysis, some who do v well with order flow others with algos, some who tried all of that and failed at all, and I even know some people who are doing very well and do not trade at all..!
The idea of this thread was for people who do trade with the order flow, to share what they do and how they do it. I appreciate and respect that they are other people doing something else and ignoring order flow and who do well, and good for them but perhaps can we share what we do rather that what we don’t do or whoever is doing/not doing..?
I should have added « Futures » Order Flow..
@bone, thank you for sharing your perspective as professional. I agree with you that one is unlikely to decode intentions of large players(unless they want it to be known). However, I think/assume most using these tools are much more short term oriented. Your statement above actually confirms that orderflow is used (even if to decieve) and thus is usable. Why would spoofing be illegal otherwise?
@Alphafuturestrading, are you attempting to do what bone suggesting is futile, or are you closer to quick hit and run trading? I think it's a very important distinction to make for this discussion.
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