G'day, I know when I went for my interview, I was suprised at the dress code - everyone was in jeans, thoings (the shoe types for those of you with different meanings for thongs) and t-shirts. I was told befoe my interview that they were casual,but i still went suit and tie just in case. I got the job, so it can't harm. If I did it again I may go a without a tie and slightly more chilled, but can't be sure about that Bestof luck
Failure rates vary, but its not as high as you might think, nor is it as high as it used to be. As for why they fail, they are simply not suited to the job for one reason or another. It is rarely due to lack of knowledge or negligence. They are not ruthless and some would say slightly too tolerant. If you're a grad who wants to be a trader then market making firms are the way to go, you will be trading while your mates in IBs are learning how not to agitate the bank's traders with their risk reports.
Thanks CTFD. Would you say Optiver is a good firm to start a career in trading? I heard market making is a relatively niche skill set is that true? Lastly i heard that a lot of trading firms generally tend to hire math students with PhD, does that reflect the difficulty level of math in trading? Thanks! By the way I am a grad i guess (only has about a yr's work experience NOT in trading but in consulting).
Legna, that's a tough question. I reckon any market making firm is the best place to start a career in trading. You will not get the chance to trade after a couple of months training anywhere else (unless things have changed at the IBs and hedge funds). As to which MM is best for a start, that is a tricky question. Some are easier to get into, others offer better training and compensation but higher risk in that they will cut you faster if you dont measure up. Entry is very competitive and you have nothing to lose by applying to all of em and if/when you get an offer you can ask Qs and decide then. Optiver is No.1 in Auz, and has been for a while. They pay well but they do not tolerate mistakes. It all depends on whether you want to work for the underdog or the leader (diff opps, faster promotions etc). Bear in mind tho that there are many out there who reckon IBs wont hire ex MM traders; whilst this isnt true, the trading dogmas are slightly different so you may face barriers in future if you do wish to work for an IB. It all depends on what your career plan is. MM is a relatively niche skillset, but it will also depend on the firm you work for, your seniority and your balls - they are always open to new ideas and theories and willing to try new ones, so you can always expand the typical skillset one acquires from MM. Trading firms do hire a lot of math geeks, but their success varies according to the job specs. Market making (and trading most products) in itself doesnt require a PHD in maths. Some of the best MMs in Auz would probably fail a four unit maths exam, but they can give rainman a run for his money in mental maths and thrive under pressure. Timing is critical in trading and as such complex calcs would be done electronically. Consulting sounds like a lucrative career path; trading isnt for everyone; if you are intelligent, dilligent, have an eye for detail and want to get rich, Id stick with consulting (in the long run, its better money and less risk albeit longer hours). If you are all of the above but willing to take the risk of either making it as a trader or ending up in an average job, then take a chance on trading. Hope this helps!
took the optiver test today, 53 on 1st but no one else in the room was apparently close to the "necessary score" so they let me take the 2nd and 3rd tests. 19/25 on the second and braincramped on the third - 25/40. my odds of getting to the next round? and what should i expect if i do? thanks
CTFD, how do you know so much about MM firms and Optiver in particular? I'm thinking of applying- they just keep getting talked about all around the traps. I hear from a reliable source it's full of very intelligent people making lots of $$$ underdog or not It couldn't be that bad working for the number 1 in the market
wittyguy, We must have the same reliable source. Dont believe everthing you hear, there are always two sides to a story and it can be tempered by one's point of view. Im sure its full of very intelligent people making lots of $$$, I never said otherwise. Nor did i say it was bad working for them; merely that some may prefer to work with the underdog trying to assert itself as opposed to yesterday's hero defending its turf.
Hey CTFD, are you a trader yourself? If so who do you work for and would you recommend your company? any names you could give me as to whom I should forward my CV really want to get into trading
also passed the numerical test. 1st round , 59/80 2nd round, 22/26 3rd round, 34/40 Any advices about the interview? Thanks a lot.
Hi guys, I actually came across this forum during a google search for Optiver when I was applying for a position. I actually had done the testing in Sydney prior to looking at this thread. Anyway, I applied for the role of risk officer (i.e. making sure the traders behave) and had to do the 8 minute test. I passed with 53 and another person got 57, however 4 other people failed whilst another person was asked to leave because they already did the tests. Anyway, the other 2 tests were equally challenging and I didn't do particularly well in 1 of the tests but things went well during my interview that they asked me to come back for a second interview. I was stoked and felt really good about my chances of landing the job. I was right and I was offered the job straight after the second interview and start in December. My advice is that you really need to love number crunching. I do, I was an ordinary mathematician at uni (top of the grade at high school) so it's not even that, you just need to be good with numbers which isn't always emphasised in mathematics courses. I chose risk management though as I'm more interested in looking at the bigger picture and identifying trends in finance. At the same time I'm also getting the opportunity to work on the trading floor where the action is. I guess this post also shows that there are opportunities to work in a trading environment where you can also focus on the big picture rather than simply focusing on trading and worrying about YOUR position. I know, I will have to focus on many positions but the computers break it down for you.