Optionsellers.com goes bust and the apology video is painful to watch

Discussion in 'Wall St. News' started by Sweet Bobby, Nov 17, 2018.

  1. Overnight

    Overnight

    Well, JSOP, why don't you, I and everyone else here come up with the ET hedge fund?

    How it works is, half of us go long in a thing, the other go short. We get investors to feed us our money monkey. We charge the transaction fees.

    After a time, we all close simultaneously, and the clients all break even, minus the fees. No harm no foul to them, as they all knew there would be fees involved, but we rake in the dough on the fees?

    So we would not be crooks, and they (our clients) would come out relatively unscathed. It's so easy, a caveman can do it? Teehee.
     
    #461     Nov 28, 2018
  2. JSOP

    JSOP

    Natural gas futures options, here we go!!! Let's go make some widows!! :) We shall invest like they are our family!!
     
    #462     Nov 28, 2018
    Overnight likes this.
  3. waklyn1

    waklyn1

    I am the author of the google sheets worksheet. It was copied by "Slope of Hope" (with no attribution) but I corrected some calculations after that point, added better color formatting, and included all positions from 11/8 through 11/15, i.e. the other commodities (gold, silver, coffee, soybeans).

    If you look at the spreadsheet , you'll see that yes, the 214 short /NG puts that started in my account on 11/8 went from a paper + recognized profit of
    11/8: $49K
    11/9: $60K
    11/12: $66K
    11/13: $61K
    11/14: $53K (including an $8K recognized profit)
    11/15: $39K

    Against this, the 244 short calls and 26 long calls over the same period went
    11/8: $-33K
    11/9: $-90K
    11/12: $-159K
    11/13: $-489K
    11/14: $-1,046K
    11/15: $-1,047K

    The interesting thing to me is that it would have been better off to just sell all the puts on 11/8 or 11/9 than to hold on to them and get closed out on 11/15 when the increased volatility/vega had pushed up the prices of the short puts (even though they were *more* out off the money than on 11/8 or 11/9)
     
    #463     Dec 2, 2018
  4. JSOP

    JSOP

    No your puts (I assume that's your account) were closed out on Nov. 15??!! WHY?? They were OTM and making money. WHY were they closed out? To cover for the margin call on the calls? Well it's a good thing that they were held until Nov. 15, you got more out of them than if you had closed them on Nov. 8, right after you shorted them.
     
    #464     Dec 2, 2018
  5. PJB1994

    PJB1994

    All of the account positions were forced to be liquidated to cover the margin call. I believe the short puts were closed out a day after the calls were closed. I don't know why all the positions were not closed out on the same day, but on the day the puts were closed, natural gas prices actually dropped substantially, making it more costly to close them, resulting in even larger debit balances. Clusterfu$K all around.
     
    #465     Dec 3, 2018
  6. waklyn1

    waklyn1

    They were not all shorted on Nov 8. Look at the left hand side of the spreadsheet at column B (Date opened). All of the puts were opened a month or more prior to the collapse, and some were opened as far back as January 2018. The spreadsheet starts at Nov 8 just to show a snapshot of the positions at that time (up $49K -- and the entire strangle up $15.9K).

    Nov 14th was the catastrophic event - i.e. a margin call went out and IntlFCStone (or OptionSellers.com?) went ahead and just started closing out all positions.

    In what order they closed positions I can not tell, since yes, they would have been better to close out all the /NG Puts on Nov 14th which would have ended in a $53K overall gain or the puts rather than delay until Nov 15th when it ended up with a further $14K loss due to that delay.

    They did the same thing with the Silver and Gold strangles, waiting until Nov 15th, which resulted in another $30K loss compared to having closed them out on Nov 14th.

    The reasons why they weren't all closed out on the same day (too many positions to close? manual closes by OptionSellers.com instead of auto-closes by IntlFCStone?) will likely be discovered in court.
     
    #466     Dec 3, 2018
    PJB1994 likes this.
  7. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    Non orderly liquidations is the absolute worst thing that can happen to you.

    In this case OS had to stop the hemorrhaging and closed the calls (buying lots of delta making the puts more OTM). Then when that is over the market sells off and the puts are less OTM and they need to be closed off. It’s just another way short vol is tricky when the shit hits the fan.
     
    #467     Dec 4, 2018
    waklyn1 and JSOP like this.
  8. So whats the update on this guy?
     
    #468     Oct 3, 2019