I've been hanging out over there on that options forum. Those guys live in this beautiful world of math. When you start thinking about option strategys it gets deep. I'm starting to realize some of the strategys I come up with are to limit psycho loss rather than fiscal loss. If you go long and get stopped out thats bad. If you go long and buy a put and it expires in the money thats not so bad. When I run the numbers on my Texas Instruments TL-503SV (hand held) they come out the same. But one of them makes me feel bad, and the other one makes me feel not so bad.