Options Trading Is Rigged Against Average Investors; Payment for order flow allows brokerages and b

Discussion in 'Options' started by ajacobson, Dec 7, 2023.

  1. Sergio123

    Sergio123

    The market makers are providing a service of order fulfillment and lower commissions and fees for thier customers.

    If your problem is stop loss hunting then why don't you change your stop loss levels to something that can handle the normal trading whipsaws?

    You need to do your own research for finding the security that trades at the price and the volatility levels that suit your needs and do the proper position sizing and risk management.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2023
    #31     Dec 10, 2023
  2. Im referring to paying for orderflow so they can front run your order.

     
    #32     Dec 10, 2023
  3. destriero

    destriero


    It literally doesn't happen. They are operating on the premise that you're r*tarded.
     
    #33     Dec 11, 2023
    newwurldmn likes this.
  4. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    So I guess a possible "countermeasure" to this is if we place hidden orders? Would MM's who pay for order flows still see hidden orders? Would you know? Of course the downside to hidden orders is that they might not get executed so if they are not as effective as far as cutting losses is concerned.
     
    #34     Dec 11, 2023
  5. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    Most Option orders are sent to a designated Market maker (DMM). They decide if they want to trade with you, post the order and what option exchange to place it on or print it. If you have the choice to choose an option exchange, those orders are still typically sent to an DMM. Placing hidden orders in options is not something I would do. An Iceberg order maybe, for very large orders, in less liquid symbols. If these are liquid symbols, many MM want to trade size as long as they have "edge". They would rather do 2000 than 2.

     
    #35     Dec 12, 2023
    TrailerParkTed likes this.
  6. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    What I mean by hidden orders is more for trading stocks and other assets. I know hidden orders don't help much in terms executions for options.
     
    #36     Dec 12, 2023
  7. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    If I wanted to hide my order, I would rather use a DARK pool. I have customers trading low volume symbols that prefer Dark pools and high volume larger accounts that prefer Dark pools to getting in and out of larger orders. I have no opinion on when DARK is better. I would not hide equity orders on Lite ECN/Exchanges. Our customers sending limit orders to add liquidity do not get paid on ARCA or NASDAQ for adding liquidity. You miss out on a credit of $0.002/Share.

     
    #37     Dec 12, 2023
    TheDawn likes this.
  8. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    But at least they won't see your stops? This is one of the concerns that were raised in that MM's are able to deduce possible stops and tp targets to their advantage when they see orders on the books especially when they pay for orderflow. Since dark pools are not accessible to the investing public according to this article: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/050614/introduction-dark-pools.asp, then the only way for retail traders to not get stop-hunted or shaken out of their positions is really through hidden orders.
     
    #38     Dec 12, 2023
  9. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    Our customers can access dark pools but dark pools do not take stop orders and a stop order is not hidden after triggered. You can’t combine these all.

     
    #39     Dec 12, 2023
    TheDawn likes this.
  10. could good market structure and trade location be good enough for your entry?
     
    #40     Dec 15, 2023