Options Trader Bets $16.6 Million on 9% S&P 500 Rally

Discussion in 'Trading' started by HeSaidSheSaid, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. jeb9999

    jeb9999

    No, I don't know what you meant. I can only go by what you actually said in your post.

    There is over a 50% difference between 33 and 50 points a month.

    1902 at expiration is a losing trade.

    1970 at expiration is a very nice winner.

    You don't care what the exact numbers are, but the trader with the 17,800 1925 calls sure does.

    I doubt the buyer picked the 1925 strike price by throwing darts.
     
    #21     Nov 13, 2013
  2. I think his hypothesis is a solid one. How does the dealer protect himself?
     
    #22     Nov 13, 2013
  3. Obviously you have no business trading, but please come back in this forum when you are ready.
     
    #23     Nov 13, 2013
  4. SLE wrote that he bought Volatility at 9.

    March Vix futures are around 18 (double of 9).
     
    #24     Nov 13, 2013
  5. So you were also short SPY?
     
    #25     Nov 13, 2013
  6. sle

    sle

    Well, while the risk-reward is assymetrical, chances are that the market is going to realize less then 10 in many cases. Also, there are so many call overwriters out there that call vol is frequently cheap.

    The dealer probably has other sh*t on the books that would help him - maybe he's long variance, maybe he's long vega elsewhere etc. Usually, you would put up a trade of that size you must have some inventory that you are trying to off-load or something along these lines.

    Right, but march vix is a forward, while he's exposed to term strike vol. Anyway, he's made a reasonable chunk of change on that already, vol is up about 1/2 vol in that part of the curve.
     
    #26     Nov 13, 2013
  7. sle

    sle

    Yup, i think this was 20ish delta at the time.
     
    #27     Nov 13, 2013
  8. Safilo

    Safilo

    History. Even during the obamaconomy the largest single intra-day loss has been under 9% and the largest one day gain has been around 10%...the SPX is inherently not volatile so on average. Your assessment that its volatility is "cheap" at 10% is incorrect; it's actually spot on.

    If the SPX starts rallying before his chosen exp, his position will gain value...and if the SPX starts rallying at a rate that is greater than it has been up to now, as many expect it to since QE isn't going away, it is likely that IV will increase as will the value of his position. It's nearly at 1790 as i'm writing this, up 6 points so far.

    Now does pointing out minutia make you feel like you have a better understanding of what's going on or do you think it's productive to get hung up on the obvious? I think you need to realize that successful traders are not burying themselves in stats and theory...their moves are, whether the admit it or not, simplistic.

    So you're gambling, and yet you try to present yourself as a legit trader because you talk about stats? Thin line between the two. I'm not taking any protracted positions in the market until the government stops artificially manipulating it. Do you really thing the "value" is there to support a 1800, 1900 or 2000 SPX? No, the underlying economic activity of the companies has been relatively flat since 2009 and "the worst president in the history of the US" is still at the helm. Expect more tears.
     
    #28     Nov 14, 2013
  9. sle

    sle

    ok, for the last time - he is short delta against the position. if S&P rallies, his option position will make money and his futures position will lose money. In fact, if the market drops 10% tomorrow, he will make money on his position and if the market gains 0.25% every day (which will take us to almost 2200 on S&P) he will actually lose money.

    One more time. It was a volatility position, not outright. I bought 1750 strike calls and sold 20% delta against them. So, for practical purposes, I only cared that I bought the option with implied volatility of about 9.5 which I deemed cheap - as long as we realized more over the life span of the option, i would make money.
     
    #29     Nov 14, 2013
  10. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    You are wasting your time sle.

    He thinks he is smarter than you. There's no reason to convince him otherwise.
     
    #30     Nov 14, 2013