$10 r/t is the most expensive you can pay- and i still would love to hear of anyone who can make money at $10 - and i mean real money year in year out
Stevet, You think $10 r/t is expensive to pay for open outcry futures options? I'd really be interested in a broker you know that charges less than that. I'm not talking about the online electronic markets like the e-mini futures, which we all know that IB charges $2.40/side. I'm talking about crude oil and soybean options for example. Tell us your sources please. Thanks.
Syd, I adree $10 r/t is by far the best but I wasn't able to find for them any info on the NFA web site to see what is the record for them.If you know their NFA ID number can you posted.Thank you.
http://www.nfa.futures.org/basic/details.asp?nfaid=0266826&name=5+PERSIDE+COM&status=I Doing Business As: 5 PERSIDE COM ED&F MAN INTERNATIONAL INC FIRST AMERICAN FOX DIVISION FOX FUTURES FOX INC FOX INVESTMENTS INVESTOR SERVICES DIVISION ISD JACK CARL FUTURES MAN FINANCIAL MAN SECURITIES MANAGED INVESTMENTS DIVISION MANSECURITIES COM
Proedge offers $8.00 rt flat. No additional fees or volume quotas-Low daytrade margins. Mini S&P, Nasdaq, Bonds. E-Mini Options also. Other markets $15.00 rt We send out free trading numbers as well. Drop me an email if you want to receive the free numbers jbarry@proedgeonline.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interest-rate futures bid/ask spreads are VERY tight for options at or very near the money. I am speaking of major markets like Eurex Bunds, CME Eurodollars, and CBOT Bonds and Notes. Floor brokers will generally get very good fills on smaller orders in the interest- rates. I usually "give up the edge" to floor brokers on smaller retail-type orders (1 to 5 lots) as an accommodation. Rand Financial's 2,000 lot order for at-the-money calls is a slightly different matter, but they will be able to do all they want as long as the futures are there. NYMEX Oil and Nat Gas is good, Agricultural bid/asks are fair, and stock index options market-makers generally want a big running start. Remember, if the commodity's underlying attracts commercials (banks, dealers, food processors, refiners), you will get tight markets because they are generally there making markets themselves. From my experience, stock index futures attract more speculators, arbitrageurs, and hedge funds than pure 'commercials' from the literal sense of the word.
You have a better chance in a 3-card Monte game. Options on futures are so heavily rigged against the retail player that you should simply forget about them. Markets are generally thin and illiquid, and they move only when the market makers decide to move them, not when the underlying vehicle rises or falls. FYI, I am a former option market maker with 12 years of floor experience. I also publish a daily newsletter -- MarketWise Black Box -- that emphasizes equity-option strategies.
I agree with a lot of what people have to say in this thread, but I have three bones to pick: 1. There are no "market makers" in the strict definition in the futures markets. There are brokers, and there are locals. 'Market maker' is a stock market term for someone who gets an exclusive on executing public orders in return for having to make a market on an issue. In the futures, anyone can bid/offer for your order, and the best price takes it. This is expected to be different for the case of SSF's when they open. 2. Energy options trading such as the crude and natural gas mentioned is fine in a quiet market, and possibly your worst nightmare in a hectic one. Don't let a little bit of decent service lately fool you, it's playing with fire. 3. Regarding commissions and fees. If you need a true measure of what you're going to be charged, ask what the all of the costs would be to trade an unleaded gas option (the most expensive US option I could think of), use this number to compare commissions. And don't forget about possible monthly account maintenance fees.