Option selling. Too good to continue?

Discussion in 'Options' started by draft730, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. taowave

    taowave

    I agree with you,but the guys are selling puts 3-1 on a notional basis for the cash on their account..

    Foy every 100k in cash,they are long apx 300k notional of underlying in a move down..

    And this is in a really cheap vol enviorment.The 10 delta put they ate trading is only 9 percent below spot..

    Furthermore,there has been an excessive volatility risk premium over time,but the distribution has also understimated tail moves on several occasions.

    The studies I have looked at do not sell ten puts with a 10 delta .They sell one put ...

    Last but not least,why would anyone take on tail risk at these levels...You aren't being paid to do so,let alone sell 10 options with a 10 delta at 18 vol...Go long 100 shares of the underlying,and if you are dead wrong,at least you will have your wits and powder in the keg to sell the vol that went from 18 to 40...

    If your selling leveraged notional down 9 percent,294 strike,you deserve to get scorched...





     
    #91     Jan 1, 2020
  2. taowave

    taowave

    77 percent on what????

    You started with 100k and ended up with 177k?? One year???

    2.5x the S and P return selling garbage puts??

    You are good..


    Cmon bro..



     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
    #92     Jan 1, 2020
  3. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    Cut your exposure to a level that you can live with a 20-30percent overnight drop in the market for all the reasons everyone on this thread is telling you.
     
    #93     Jan 1, 2020
    draft730 likes this.
  4. TheBigShort

    TheBigShort

    I would be cautious taking advice from @Wheezooo. I find his posts very misleading (2 thetas??).

    If something pays off in bad times it should have a higher risk premium than something that pays off in good times. Since long gamma pays off during bad times it only makes sense for there to be a risk premium priced into options (especially puts).

    @sle posted on here a while back an excel sheet that showed the PnL had you sold variance swaps from I believe 2000. The results are outstanding! Variance swaps would have an implied var of something like the delta 30 puts and constant gamma so it's a little different. But ATM vol is not to far off.

    Selling a 30 day ATM straddle and delta hedging will have a positive expected value. That being said, you can improve your results by figuring out a better delta hedging strategy and trying to figure out when tail risk looms so you can step aside.

    To counter Wheezo. Imagine if puts were 0 ev. This would mean that every fund manager in the world would be buying these things - They would lose no edge and they would not lose their job in bad times. His reasoning does not make any sense.

    Just be sensible with your risk. Aim for 15% annually not 77%!!!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
    #94     Jan 1, 2020
    yc47ib and drcruz like this.
  5. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    That’s a common job interview question. Make a 1 cent market on an option with a fair value of $1.
     
    #95     Jan 1, 2020
  6. drcruz

    drcruz

    @Sweet Bobby , tried to send email.
     
    #96     Jan 1, 2020
  7. TheBigShort

    TheBigShort

    Yikes, I don't know the answer to this one. What's the answer?

    ahhh, i see where I went wrong. I apologize @Wheezooo for the 2 thetas statement.
     
    #97     Jan 1, 2020
  8. ironchef

    ironchef

    So am I. :banghead:

    But, after reading this thread, I don't feel too lonely. :D
     
    #98     Jan 1, 2020
    drcruz likes this.
  9. #99     Jan 1, 2020
  10. draft730

    draft730

    Started with 49 ended with 86.7k. As I said in the first message I sell 10-14 delta puts and roll the position to maintain a minimum overall delta exposure. In the first 4 months alone I was up 40% if that helps
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
    #100     Jan 1, 2020