Just curious - have you taken the OTA course? What do you base your comments on? I've run into a lot of people in forums that think very poorly of OTA, but I haven't run into anyone who actually completed their program and thought poorly of it and considered it a waste. ALL of the instructors I've had at OTA trade. I'm not sure this is the case for all of the office staff and counselors, although most indicate they do I haven't had enough conversations to determine this, but I have with the instructors. Perhaps I'm lucky to live in Chicago. All of the instructors, and most of the staff here, have a background in floor trading the major Chicago exchanges. The common theme is that they left at some point and tried online electronic trading and realized it is different from floor trading and either on their own, or through OTA's earlier form, learned how to be successful at electronic trading. While their background in floor trading doesn't directly translate it does provide certain insights and core market knowledge that have been helpful. Most seem to teach as it gives them variety in they day to day routines and profession. I'm currently in XLT, and have run into a good handful of XLT students. The majority have not yet been profitable but are learning. Some are profitable. I'd presume, but don't know for a fact, that there are others who I haven't met because they've become successful, learned what they wanted to, and moved on. The ones who are not profitable and are a bit frustrated have been around for a while (some almost a year in XLT). Perhaps it will just take them longer or perhaps they are not cut out for trading, or maybe the OTA program is not right for them. After taking the basic pro trader course and a few weeks of a several month long (or longer) XLT program, my feelings remain that this is expensive but that it will be worthwhile. Again, ultimately time will tell. I think it takes much longer than most of initially think to learn trading and that it is a long road - perhaps years. I continue to believe, for now at least, that the OTA program is solid educational information that will shorten this track and/or provide a jump start. It is not a golden egg, nor the ultimate anything and you won't finish the one week program with the ability to go out there and successfully start trading. But you will learn some key basics and tools to set you on the proper path. I've run into a lot of people in forums that think very poorly of OTA, but I haven't run into anyone who actually completed their program and thought poorly of it and considered it a waste.
1. We don't know if the instructors are "successful". have you seen profit and loss statements? ah, no. please consider for one second they are broke and need your money. 2. gurus convince you it takes tons of time.....and eventually make it seem like it's YOUR fault for failing. 3. i'm sure they are nice guys, sweet powerpoints, good at talking support/resistance, and can even talk for hours with a smile... 4. yes, they will likely give you a routine. and maybe be your friend. 5. but to me, they are selling you shovels to dig for "gold" and will only be friends with you until your money runs out. ------------- i'm sure chicago is a fun place to learn to trade... so maybe go to the exchanges or whatever and work for pennies and learn for free..... just for a few months. they tell you it takes years.....LOL. one of the best guru-isms. they charge $6,000!!!!! LOL come on.... to show lines of support/resistance and talk a lot about nothing... let me guess.....daily pivot plus support makes it stronger. and candlesticks....haha. this is too funny. LOL
I think trading is different for different people. There is no "one way" to do it. People trading in exactly the opposite ways both can make good money. e.g. Fundamentalists versus Technicians. Long-term investors versus Day Traders. Discretionary versus mechanical. Surprise, surprise! So whatever opinions offered in a forum, maybe they would work for half of the population. Anyway, I have been trading for a living full-time for over 3 years now. And I do exactly the opposite of the above. I had traded part-time for years and years without consistent results. It didn't improve until I jumped at it, sink or swim, with both feet. I trade very often. I figured that I am not good at judging the swings and I don't have enough patience. But I can tell how prices will move usually in the next 5 to 15 minutes. So I had developed my own tactics to trade with heavy size and very tight mental stop. When prices move against me, I must have a second thought and get out. This doesn't work for everyone but it worked well for me. I think in trading it is very important to find out who you are and find some methods that fit you. Any opinions offered, best intention as they are, may only work well if you line-up with the person who offers it. p.s. Thanks for your kind words tvuu.
i totally agree with this. i just like to vent when you have to spend $6,000 and be forced to trade like the guru, usually totally different than your personality. you just paid money to maybe learn a way that doesn't work, and you can't go back. maybe have a beginning course where they match your capital, personality, past history of trading, etc...with a coach. it's a start.
Thanks Bolimomo for the word of wisdom! I owe you a cup of Starbucks coffee. Please let me know how I can buy you a cup of coffee? http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/newreply.php?action=newreply&threadid=133304#
These guys give an OK basic foundation, but they will do the hard-sell for an upgrade to thier online programs for another $6000 or more.
OTA is definately expensive, and alot of the information taught at the basic level can be found anywhere on the internet. But, their education is extensive and very broad based. These guys don't teach you one strategy. All the instructors look at the market slightly differently, so everytime you retake the class you pick up another view. All their retakes are free so dropping 6k for a class is less painful since you can retake the class a million more times (i've retaken the class 4 times). Again, it's less about what's in the book but what the instructor stresses. I had one instructor where trendlines are integral in his trading plan while another thought they were crap. I listened to them both and came up to my conclusion (they don't work for me). After the class the instructors encourage you to email them with your completed trades to see how well you are doing. They are really great at getting back to you with suggestions criticisms. While the instructors are great, the weakest link of the whole organization are the education counselors. These are the guys who will hard sell you. I started out with a counselor who could hardly trade he was a nice enough guy but more salesman then counselor, so i switched to another guy who knows how to trade and it has been night and day. Now I go down to the school once a month and we talk over my trades and rips me a new one when I start deviating from MY OWN trading plan. In summation, OTA is expensive? yes Is the information in the intro class basic? yes Is it worth it? hell yes Lifetime free retakes and the support is second to none. Just get a good Education Counselor.
Without your broker statements, these are unsupported. It is not "worth it" if it does not work at least reasonably well. And almost all of them do not. Anonymous poster endorsements aside.
Disclosure Statement: I am an OTA student and have been through a few of their courses, I am not "profitable". I do not work for OTA as some will accuse me of. I am a new poster, not "a shill", I actually just found this site recently and joined it. The first and foremost benefit of joing OTA is learning how NOT to blow up your trading accounts. This one issue pays for your entire tuition. I know so many people that have blown up accounts. Consider paying OTA $6-12k to prevent you from losing $50-100-200k. Money well spent. Others in this room will give you a myriad of statements like "you can read it in a book" "you can find it on the internet" etc, etc, etc. I am willing to say it as it is, most people "trading" have no business doing so. They are being "taken" by the markets for large sums of money. The markets are a money transfer system designed to take money from those that "do not know" giving it to those that "do know". I strongly believe there are those in this and other rooms that profit personally from you blowing up your account. They will discourage you from getting any education other than "read a book". Frankly I have not seen one post from any of these purported "gurus" designed to actually help anyone. These forums could be so helpful and unfortunately, if these "gurus" actually know anything at all, they won't share it. So, before you give any more of your money to the market, spend some on education. There are lots of places that claim they will help, but alot are of no value, do your homework, skip the "hotel" workshops that are here today and gone tomorrow. As far as OTA, the Pro-Trader course is a must for building a foundation for all markets. If you want to specialize, then take a second course such as Futures or Forex. If you are really serious, then take the XLT (extended learning track). The XLT is an online course 4x/week for two hours each. Most people don't need the big Passport program offering everything under the sun. You will more likely end up chasing the "Holy Grail". I greatly benefited from this course as I stopped losing money. No I am not consistently profitable but my account has remained level for months so I have learned something and am NOT losing money like I was before OTA, plain and simple..... Do be aware that their business is "selling education" so, you may or may not get a hard sell, that's business. They may also try to "up sell" you. Forewarned is forearmed. Take their free workshops, get the info, do your research, talk to others in the classes and make your decision. Note: the "deals" in most cases will be available to you later. Don't think that you have to buy today. Also, everything is negotiable, money, time etc. So if you want a package, get their best price then pay even less. If you want to extend your expenses for multiple courses, pay some now and some later, you should get the picture. Do be aware that if you want multiple programs, it is best to negotiate for your package, don't buy them individually. You must also have realistic expectations, you will NOT learn to trade for a living in a few months. If you become skilled at all, it will take years. A few people I know have taken between three and five years of hard work to be very consistently profitable. If you don't have the time and backing, do not count on this for a paycheck! In summary, I highly recommend OTA, have learned lots, have stopped losing money, have met some great people and have had a great time doing it. I've also stopped chasing the "Holy Grail" as there is no grail in this business. Find what you like, "hunker down" and study the heck out of it.