Is there anyone who has actually taken the course? If you didn't feel you got your money's worth can you tell us why? If you feel the course was worthwhile and if you have more than a few posts maybe you could elaborate as to why.
You can buy an elliott wave training video for 100usd from an educator who said after watching the video you will become a profitable trader, but there is no way you can start applying the method profitably even in few months. You might understand the concept but you need experience for everything to sink in and for your brain to easily pick up the patterns in real time in live markets and this can take years. I sense you might be new to trading I suggest to choose a strategy now and stick with it till you master it, especially a rule based system which can have you doing the same thing over and over.
Well, I was not sure if I wanted to talk about this, giving the hostile environment, but I feel like I need for full disclosure. After this thread started, I decided it was time to put my money where my mouth was. I knew of Oliver from Prestine days, not personally, just from free material and the books. At the time, I thought that day trading is not a viable way to trade, so I didn't pay much attention. Coincidentally, It so happened that at this time I got a chance to be working from home, which meant I could do some serious day trading. I started looking for a day trading room to join. I watched all the free material from Oliver, which is a lot. My other choice was Warrior but I didn't like dealing with low floats and I thought Oliver's teachings had more depth to it. So, I attended free open house which is lead by their head traders - Dr. Dan in the morning and Paul in afternoon (not Oliver). I joined the Master program, but only because the room by itself was more expensive than getting the bundle. I trade my own money via IB, I don't use their platform - Fusion. However, I may want to get funded or join prop firm in the future, so that was another reason to choose them. This is very subjective and depends on where you are in your journey. No mind blowing secrets will be revealed because, obviously, there are none. IMHO, the value is in getting funded plus the room where the "right" actions are being reinforced daily. The room serves the purpose of getting you to trade in a way so you can get funded, not necessarily the way Oliver trades - in other words the room trades more conservatively - to fit smaller account size profile. I found people were very nice and very straight forward. No promises are made. Everyone very humble. No pitches or upsells. I actually have an opinion(shocking, I know) on why people think it's a scam. Let's not talk about the people who joined for the wrong reasons. Let's talk about people who joined for the right reasons. I think there's an expectation that once you pay for the program, Oliver will personally be teaching you on daily basis. That's not the case - I am talking about basic funding programs, not special programs led by Oliver himself. You get sessions with Oliver, but I feel it is not as often as one would hope. I was thinking if it is fair or not. I think for people for whom the amount of money is significant, it could be very disappointing. However, imho, the value of ifundtraders is not in Oliver repeating the same thing over and over, but in being in a controlled environment where you will be held accountable and gain experience. What monetary value do you put on this is up to you. For me it was well worth it, but it's a small amount relatively speaking. Here, it's off my chest If you are starting out, below is an excellent, and unbiased, speach by Oliver. P.S. I will not share any materials from the program, so please don't ask.
oliver is a greazy con man and serial ripoff artist probably cant trade his way out of a paper bag much easier to fleece suckers
I was not in any of his private programs so I didn’t see him trade daily. However, during one of the live afternoon sessions some news hit. He asked us to wait and started trading AAPL. That was amazing to watch ... like taking a candy from a baby - was over in a few minutes. I use “amazing” because he is obviously very charismatic guy and it was quite a show Sometimes he trades live on Periscope. He encourages his traders to share their experiences on social media, but I didn’t find many that do.
Thank you. Appreciate you taking the time. Nice to get a review from someone who has taken the course.
thats an amazing and legendary story. we talk about it every day, the time when velez traded apple on news. good thing he doesnt trade for real anymore, he's have all the money in the world.
After following Oliver Velez for almost a year now on his various platform (I didn't buy his plan yet) I can try and answer some of the Q that were asked here. first about the idea that you are going to get kicked out of his program if you hit the max daily loss (300$) or the max weekly loss (600$). this isn't true. if you hit one of those max losses you will just get locked out of trading till tomorrow or next week(depends on which max loss you hit). if you lose your entire account it looks like you are done, but there aren't any details on accounts wipe out. What this all means is that even if he doesn't really put his own money on the line, and uses leverage of x50 on your initial 50k you can still lose the entire account while only really losing the first 1.5k, which means he needs to pay the rest of your loss. let's say it takes you 6 months to finish the simulation trading(you can actually finish it in 3 but I want a conservative estimate), and that you bought the self-start program, that's 2,050$ till you start trading real money. now let's say you are losing the max 600$ each week, it will take you 83 weeks or 20.8 months to lose it all, that means another 2,604$ in fees(20.8x125=2604). combined you will lose 4,654$ while he will need to cover your 50K leveraged account, let's say he doesn't need to pay a dime for the platforms(which is obviously not true) he will still be down 45,346$. since we can agree that there is no way he will let this happen, That means one of two things: A: you can't really pass the first level of the simulation which leaves you just trading fake money and losing a lot in fees. B: this dude actually knows what he is doing and has an actual successful way to teach traders to become profitable. so now we need to determine between A and B, and in order to do that we need to establish what is wrong and what is right about him. 1. the notion that by having thousands of traders copying his moves he becomes the elephant is WRONG because he is trading live with only a select small group of members called the black team, so the thousands of traders that bought his program don't buy in right after him pushing the stock higher and creating an elephant bar, they have to find the opportunities for themselves. 2. I read a Q here about why doesn't he just use trading bots? the answer is Yes he does also use bots. Oliver mentioned a couple of times that he has trading bots working for him with accounts in the millions range. the reason that he doesn't only use bots is because they have a low win rate unlike his human-based trading strategy, and that's because you can quantify with numbers the strategy(that's what I think they mean by saying "intuition"). I have some coding background and after watching one of his live streams I started to think how could I write a bot to do this for me and my answer is that I can't. I'm not going to get into details about why can't but if you have some tech background and you now Oliver tactics we will at most manege to create a vague replica that isn't even close to a pro precision. 3. I have found this on youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7Sku4jxIchUZz_FggH2_uQ that's a guy who is doing the self-start trading program and you can actually see him using the simulator and the real platform and making trades, and most importantly you can see that at the first couple of videos the Buying Power the platform shows in 50K and then, in the later videos it's 100K which means he made it to the third stage. now this dude name is Frank Leon and he is obviously from Latin America and speaks Spanish which I don't but I was still able to identify that he is talking about Oliver in some of those videos. this channel could possibly be a fake one in which Oliver gave a friend an account to show some wins and progress in the program to suck some people in that's for you to decide but from what I can see that guy uses the actual tactics taught by Oliver. 4. I read here that you can't backtest Oliver's strategy for some made-up reason. completely WRONG. actually it's super easy to backtest because the strategy works on every time frame. just pick any stocks of the ones he is trading go back a month and analyze the first 90 minutes of each trading day using his tactics and by doing so correctly you will get something like an 80% win rate. now if his strategy can generate 80% accuracy that, in my book, considered a working strategy, that means it has the possibility to make 80% gain in live trading, with the right education. which makes the B argument stronger. 5. why does Oliver prefer new traders over seasoned ones? he answered it by saying that when a new trader arrives it's like a clean paper and you can write right moves and trading plans easily compared to a trader that might have got all sorts of previous false ideas and a lot of dumb scribbles and drawings on his paper. the really great traders don't come to trade for him, they trade for Goldman Sachs and the big dogs' hedge funds. 6. what is Oliver's motive? according to Oliver is motive is to make his capital work for him like in every other investment in the world. he puts money at risk and in return, he gets a majority part of his traders' earnings. the reason he trusts the traders is that they already proved they can turn 50K to 53K. I would personally give 50K to someone that proved he can turn 50K to 53K using a systematic rule-based trading so I can see why he would also. 6. why doesn't he post losing days? he does you just need to dig deeper because they are rare. that would actually be more suspicious if they are still common after 30+ years of trading. I recommend following him on Instagram to see them a bit more often. 7. he openly admits he had several partners that tried to rob him and his traders in the past and I guess that that's the reason for some of the complaints about stealing money and closing previous firms. it is important to note that there are records of him trading, mentoring, and doing interviews for big news companies like the new york times:https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/24/...re-carefully-siren-of-rebounding-markets.html https://web.archive.org/web/20040722071027/http://pristine.com/seminars/ https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/012698chat.html https://web.archive.org/web/20010813202111/http://pristine.com/seminars/seminars_mentorship.htm 8. I don't know how his website looked like in 2018 but I can say that today in mid-2020 it looks great: https://www.ifundtraders.com/ 9. the only question I can't give a strong answer to is if he has let's say 10,000 traders( i actually recall him saying his more than this) and each one has a 50K account that's 500M plus he himself trades with a couple of millions and has trading bots, long term investments and I can imagine a couple more millions in property. I can confirm that he does donate a lot to Latin America especially now with the coronavirus, other than this I can only imagine that he is doing all sorts of stuff to avoid being taxed but I don't think that he is a billionaire. 10. very important to mention that he gave a public prediction with reasoning about the market crash. he didn't say what will cause it but he did say why he thinks we are due for a sharp down move: the reasons he gives are the same ones he teaches in his strategy. plus he was very open on Facebook about what long term positions he is selling BEFORE the crash, and also very open about is entries into bitcoin and etherium on periscope before the market recovery. 11. we do need to ask why does he target mainly the Latin America community is it because they are easy to scam? or because he has Latin roots so he feels a sense of giving back to his people? I honestly don't know the answer to this one. 12. unlike many other trading gurus he actually has two major credibility points in the form of a. he actually stands to gain from your profit and not just sell you a course. b. he has great sources of free high-quality material online on his different platforms which is almost always a sign of a trustworthy guy. 13. On the website, he says that the moment a trader finishes the first stage he gets 100% of the profits till the initial 1500$ has been earned back and then only the profit-sharing begins. 14. about forex trading strategy being the same as equity is because the strategy is based on human psychology and since both markets are traded by humans the strategies are the same. for me personally the draw to his program comes from the professional platform, the fact that by using his money I will feel more of a responsibility to trade according to the rules, having an account above margin requirement and having the ability to short which I don't currently have. and all for a relatively small amount of cash. the education I mostly have already and the community are both nice bonuses but aren't the main reason. I think the biggest question is: Is it possible to pass the first stage to the real money account stage or not? I suggest trying out his strategies in a paper money account and if you manage to make 3K then buy into his program. At the end of the day, that's your money and your decision to make
It’s not necessary true. They offer FastTrack upgrade for additional fee. This let’s you trade higher priced stocks and etfs. Could be. One of the reasons he gave was that licensing requirements makes it harder to get new US clients. In my opinion, the reason is cost of living in Latin America is much lower so if he can teach them to make $200-300 a day consistently, it would give them a good chance to succeed. I assume he is loosing US clients to guys like Warrior Trading where you can make quick huge returns on small account.