I took a free course (was a promotion) online, 4 hs of him saying something that can be said in just 15min. Bur there are a lot of videos of his course in youtube too. He is actually making money telling the people he will give them $50K to trade. People taking the course knows nothing about the market, they don't know what is leverage and that he is using the $1000 paid fpr the course to give them $50K leveraged.
Read through the post below (my question in #23) He is an educator ... NONE of his money is being used! They offer you 50k of funding and as far as I know, they will give it to you once/if you pass the simulator. If he sold you the course promising 50k funding but than reneged, that would definitely be a scam. The course not being worth $1000 because it's the same concepts he teaches for free, is very subjective. He often says on Periscope something like "I can teach you all my strategies in two days, but it may take you years to trade them properly." https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...ter-business-model.323323/page-3#post-4703392 As far as back-testing, even to write a formula to identify "elephant" bar would be a challenge and no two people would do it exactly the same. Add all the rest, there is no way anyone can back test this with any accuracy. Many discretionary traders cannot even explain what they do when they try to automate their strategy. BTW, I do agree with you that if you pool together a bunch of traders and they all short the stock at the same time with size, it will go down even if momentarily. But you can say the same about every prop shop and probably most of Wall Street is doing this to some extend (find the famous Cramer video where he admits it). They create their own edge! The whole industry is a Scam ... why pick on one person
As far as I know??? Have you passed his course and got the funds from him or heard of anyone else who has? Show me proof someone has been funded before cuz as far as I know, there hasn't been a single review on the internet indicating they've been funded. Nobody is picking on him. We are exposing him for what he is. Why do you keep twisting logic in your words to defend this crook? How much does he pay you to say these things? BTW, you're an terrible liar....
When I created this post the main idea was to offer proofs, not opinions, and to avoid insulting people, is not useful at all. Anyway I'm curious to know why you are protecting to Oliver, which is actually something good for a real debate, to have someone on the other side. But to me is really obvious he is a scammer, I just try to leave some proofs of that for people are being confused by his marketing strategy. If you think he is an honest trader/teacher and his strategy really works, can you prove that someway? and also can you reply *all* the points I put on my first post? For example: 1- How can he give $50K to all his traders if he does not have that money? 2- If he is using the $1K with 50X from the course, why he is not saying that? is not too honest and he is claiming all the time he wants to help people and teach them etc 3- If everybody is trading $50K in 2m, then how can his strategy work? he is the elephant in that situation! 4- He says he need help with their trades, he is not making money with the course, he needs traders, then why is not offering the course by free to get more and best traders? and in any case, why is training people who knows nothing about the market instead of more professional ones if he has all that money to trade after all? 5- Why he is uploading only profitable days? why is not showing all his trades to see if the earnings are consistent? 6- Why he changed son many times the company names and there are a lot of people from 2008, 2010, 2012 etc saying they lost all the money when he closed thos previous companies? 7- Why he is not the richest man in the world? he says he was trading since 198X, and he says he had more than 100% profits per year, do the maths, this man should be the top1 in Forbes, but nobody knows him ! 8- Why he promotes himself as the winner of the best trader award but is not giving any proof of that? acutally I couldn't even find a prize like that 9- Why his website is sooo unprofessional? he is millionare and is selling courses for more than $1000 and cannot pay a webdesigner? at least to fix their broken links??
Listen, nothing I (anonymous person on ET) can say to convince you. And I am NOT trying to convince you of anything. Just like you I don't really have any poof of anything ... only opinions. You may very well be proven right. What I can't tolerate is someone coming to ET and dumping all over someone anonymously without being questioned.
The difference is I'm not focusing on any insult, just on the real debate. I have posted my points of why I think Oliver is a Scam, I'm not trying to convince you, even more, I'm asking to you to convince me if I'm wrong! because that's the real win, to know the truth, not to win a debate on some forum. If you think Oliver is not a scam would be nice to know your arguments, and maybe reply my questions above if you know I'm wrong in that reasoning.
K, let me try ... just my point of view - not facts: 1- How can he give $50K to all his traders if he does not have that money? Once you pass the SIM, they will set up a prop trading account. I believe it's with T3. What kind of payments he gets after that I don't know and don't care. As long as I get what I'm promised, I'm fine. 2- If he is using the $1K with 50X from the course, why he is not saying that? is not too honest and he is claiming all the time he wants to help people and teach them etc I don't know how the money is spent/distributed. I'm pretty sure the $1K goes to him and has nothing to do with funded account. As far as client is concerned, he/she is paying for the course and a chance to get funded. Go ahead and point me to a place which will give you 50k account without any initial deposit and with no prior trading record. I will tell you that the more you explain things to people, the more they get confused. If it's not relevant, there is no need to go to details. 3- If everybody is trading $50K in 2m, then how can his strategy work? he is the elephant in that situation! I don't think he tells traders ... we are all shorting this stock NOW. He says he trades about four stocks. Can they move AAPL two minutes into the open ... I doubt it but possible. If that was true, all his traders would be rich beyond belief. BTW, when he says "elephant" bar , he means unusually large bar(like an elephant trunk), not that the institutions (aka elephants) are responsible for creating it. 4- He says he need help with their trades, he is not making money with the course, he needs traders, then why is not offering the course by free to get more and best traders? and in any case, why is training people who knows nothing about the market instead of more professional ones if he has all that money to trade after all? He doesn't need help. It's easier to trade when you are in a group (like prop firm) because there are many eyeballs calling out possible trades (as long as all trade similar setups). People often perceive value of the product by the price. If I offer you something for free, that's what you will think it's worth. Lots of people overprice just to create perceived value (and to negotiate down from a large number) He has what he calls "black team" which is by invitation only. Obviously every business needs new clients and this business is competitive because people promise ridiculous results. He often says that as soon as he mentions that most people will fail, his periscope audience is halved immediately I think you need to consider that he is talking to a large diverse audience, so he needs to speak to the common denominator. 5- Why he is uploading only profitable days? why is not showing all his trades to see if the earnings are consistent? I've seen him (on Periscope) be in the red and explain that he will often come back from the red. It's not unusual for day-traders to be very consistently profitable. His consistency has nothing to do with your future consistency though, so it's irrelevant. 6- Why he changed son many times the company names and there are a lot of people from 2008, 2010, 2012 etc saying they lost all the money when he closed thos previous companies? I have no idea, but I do know going into business with partners is very difficult. People are looking to screw you all the time. Maybe he screwed them or maybe he got screwed, I don't know. Has nothing to do with the worth of his education. 7- Why he is not the richest man in the world? he says he was trading since 198X, and he says he had more than 100% profits per year, do the maths, this man should be the top1 in Forbes, but nobody knows him ! Maybe he has a gambling problems. Maybe he has 100 baby mamas all over the world he is paying for. Maybe he made lots of bad investments. Maybe he is hiding money from IRS. I have no idea and I don't think it's fair to ask. IMHO, people who sell you their strategies (assuming it even has an edge) understand that their strategy is not scalable. So it's good to sell to people with small accounts because they will/may make good relative returns on it. If you go get funded from a real place (hedge fund or family office) the first thing they will ask you is - how much capital can we allocate to your strategy? Trading is very hard, stressful, and unstable. Teaching is easier, more scalable, and for most people is more meaningful. The 1% that succeed, you may have made a real impact on their lives forever. That's a noble cause. Will 99% be disappointed? Yes, but that's something you cannot change no matter what you do. Let me also address something you said before. Lots of people say, oh he is teaching people in Latin America because they are not as knowledgeable or whatever. If I were a successful trader and was looking for someone to mentor, would I take a IV school graduate or would I take a promising kid from a ghetto? I would take the kid from a ghetto. If he makes it, the impact would be huge on him, his family, and possibly even his community. The IV guy, will be like ... I could've made three times as much while having lunch with my buddies. 8- Why he promotes himself as the winner of the best trader award but is not giving any proof of that? acutally I couldn't even find a prize like that I'm sure in his 30 years he got some award You have to accept that he is a front man for the business and any business needs to market itself. For you it raises red flags and that's ok. 9- Why his website is sooo unprofessional? he is millionare and is selling courses for more than $1000 and cannot pay a webdesigner? at least to fix their broken links?? Ha ... the first indication of a scam to me is when someone makes the web-site very professional. Most "regular" businesses provide the basic necessities since everything costs money. I don't understand why people expect their teachers/mentors to be saints. Quick real story ... I was reading a book from Oprah's book club on a plain. The flight attendant comes up to me and says ... How can you read her stuff, she is such a fraud. How so I say? I bought her book on how to loose weight when she got skinny ... by the time I've finished it she was fat again!
I'll just stop wasting my time with these type of people. It makes no sense why anyone would defend him like this even when several red flags have been raised. (Many by himself...) There is only 2 possibilities. He has complete lack of common sense and is not capable of listening or he is an Oliver ass kisser/co-conspirator.
1- How can he give $50K to all his traders if he does not have that money? Once you pass the SIM, they will set up a prop trading account. I believe it's with T3. What kind of payments he gets after that I don't know and don't care. As long as I get what I'm promised, I'm fine. Really??? of course is important if he has the money he said it has! because that's part of the thing we are trying to discover = if he is a liar/scam or not! (same for question 2) 3- If everybody is trading $50K in 2m, then how can his strategy work? he is the elephant in that situation! I don't think he tells traders ... we are all shorting this stock NOW. He says he trades about four stocks. Can they move AAPL two minutes into the open ... I doubt it but possible. If that was true, all his traders would be rich beyond belief. BTW, when he says "elephant" bar , he means unusually large bar(like an elephant trunk), not that the institutions (aka elephants) are responsible for creating it. I know what is an elephant bar, and that's what I was saying, Oliver says he has thousands of traders, trading $50K, on just a few stocks, and in candles of 2m, and all of them are trained to open the position on the second bar of the day, that should create a lot of elephant bars just from Oliver traders! do the maths (I did this on the first post). 4- He says he need help with their trades, he is not making money with the course, he needs traders, then why is not offering the course by free to get more and best traders? and in any case, why is training people who knows nothing about the market instead of more professional ones if he has all that money to trade after all? He doesn't need help. It's easier to trade when you are in a group (like prop firm) because there are many eyeballs calling out possible trades (as long as all trade similar setups). People often perceive value of the product by the price. If I offer you something for free, that's what you will think it's worth. Lots of people overprice just to create perceived value (and to negotiate down from a large number) He has what he calls "black team" which is by invitation only. Obviously every business needs new clients and this business is competitive because people promise ridiculous results. He often says that as soon as he mentions that most people will fail, his periscope audience is halved immediately I think you need to consider that he is talking to a large diverse audience, so he needs to speak to the common denominator. Yes he says he needs help, and they mentors told me that too on a chat after one of their online courses. But this is just using the logic man! If there are 100 stocks to trade, and every trader can see 5 at time, Oliver just needs 20 traders to cover all the opportunities, he needs to train only 20 people really well, not random people, and then he will be the richest person in the world in just a few years, because he is arguing 90% of success and more than 100% yearly on profits! Why then? why is he offering his magic secret to win to all the people, for just $1K? just use your logic, or explain us what is your logic behind this. If you know how to win 90%, and you have $millions to trade, will you give that knowledge and money to others? and if yes, why?? 5- Why he is uploading only profitable days? why is not showing all his trades to see if the earnings are consistent? I've seen him (on Periscope) be in the red and explain that he will often come back from the red. It's not unusual for day-traders to be very consistently profitable. His consistency has nothing to do with your future consistency though, so it's irrelevant. IT IS relevant, because I'm not talking about me, we are talking if Oliver Velez is a scam or not! so if he claims 100% yearly he should show the whole year to know if that's true. 6- Why he changed son many times the company names and there are a lot of people from 2008, 2010, 2012 etc saying they lost all the money when he closed thos previous companies? I have no idea, but I do know going into business with partners is very difficult. People are looking to screw you all the time. Maybe he screwed them or maybe he got screwed, I don't know. Has nothing to do with the worth of his education. ???? I really cannot understand your logic! or you are too biased on this because you are part of Oliver Velez team. How is not important to know if he scammed people with other companies before if we are trying to know if he is a scam??? ah yes, the past is the past right? people can change? of course is important his past! 7- Why he is not the richest man in the world? he says he was trading since 198X, and he says he had more than 100% profits per year, do the maths, this man should be the top1 in Forbes, but nobody knows him ! Maybe he has a gambling problems. Maybe he has 100 baby mamas all over the world he is paying for. Maybe he made lots of bad investments. Maybe he is hiding money from IRS. I have no idea and I don't think it's fair to ask. so your answer for everything is "I don't know, but I don't care, just trust in Oliver, give him all your money because he is a nice guy, I can feel it" IMHO, people who sell you their strategies (assuming it even has an edge) understand that their strategy is not scalable. So it's good to sell to people with small accounts because they will/may make good relative returns on it. If you go get funded from a real place (hedge fund or family office) the first thing they will ask you is - how much capital can we allocate to your strategy? Trading is very hard, stressful, and unstable. Teaching is easier, more scalable, and for most people is more meaningful. The 1% that succeed, you may have made a real impact on their lives forever. That's a noble cause. Will 99% be disappointed? Yes, but that's something you cannot change no matter what you do. Let me also address something you said before. Lots of people say, oh he is teaching people in Latin America because they are not as knowledgeable or whatever. If I were a successful trader and was looking for someone to mentor, would I take a IV school graduate or would I take a promising kid from a ghetto? I would take the kid from a ghetto. If he makes it, the impact would be huge on him, his family, and possibly even his community. The IV guy, will be like ... I could've made three times as much while having lunch with my buddies. Yeah sure, and you will ask for $1000 or more to the kid from a ghetto, because you are an angel and you only want to help, that makes so much sense. This is exactly what I'm saying with these questions, what he says is not compatible with his actions: - He says he need help, that's why he need more traders = if this is true then he needs only 20 or 30 traders, and of course is much better to get people with knowledge - He says he want to help poor people = if this is true then he will give the course for free, there are a lot of people out there teaching for free (not only trading, I mean everything) - He teaches to trade $50K on 2m candles, and to follow the elephant bars = if this is true, he is the one creating the elephant bars with so much money invested in 2m! - He says he can make 100% yearly (actually even more) = if this is true then he will be the richest person in the world, or at least be present on Forbes 8- Why he promotes himself as the winner of the best trader award but is not giving any proof of that? acutally I couldn't even find a prize like that I'm sure in his 30 years he got some award You have to accept that he is a front man for the business and any business needs to market itself. For you it raises red flags and that's ok. not his 30, it says 2009 on his website! you are not even reading, or you just see what you want to see. 9- Why his website is sooo unprofessional? he is millionare and is selling courses for more than $1000 and cannot pay a webdesigner? at least to fix their broken links?? Ha ... the first indication of a scam to me is when someone makes the web-site very professional. Most "regular" businesses provide the basic necessities since everything costs money. whaaaat???? yes, OK, next time I want to prove to the people I'm real or start a new business I will create an horrible website with all the links dead, because if it looks professional then people will be scared. Really???? man you have a really bad problem in your logic. I don't understand why people expect their teachers/mentors to be saints. Quick real story ... I was reading a book from Oprah's book club on a plain. The flight attendant comes up to me and says ... How can you read her stuff, she is such a fraud. How so I say? I bought her book on how to loose weight when she got skinny ... by the time I've finished it she was fat again!