Older newbies and prop trading

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by hippietrader, Jul 25, 2009.

  1. Any chance of a career changer joining a non-scam prop trading firm? It seems that the non-scam firms ( not requiring thousands in training fee) only take new college grads.

    I discover my passion for the market late in life, after working in IT for many years. I attended a live educational trading room for the last 6 months ($30/mo). I am learning other stuff on my own from books and free webinars.

    I am weary of so called prop firms that are more interested in getting a gigantic training fee (like that of Oliver Velez) than in the trader working for them successfully.

    If anyone knows of a prop firm that doesn't require thousands in tuition, please let me know. I will work very hard for a chance to learn and work in a professional prop trading environment. I will consider re-locating for a suitable opportunity.

    Thank you all in advance for any info.
  2. They take younger guys because they don't have any biases about the market nor have any "bad" experiences. Inexperienced traders also don't have any "bad" habits. That way the firm can train them to trade based on their methodology.

    Older guys can trade at the retail-brokers that provide leverage prop firms... of course you have to deposit some of your own capital and the training won't be very serious. I'm sure sitting alongside guys will be insightful nevertheless.
  3. I am not married to any methodology. I will learn any method that the prop shop teaches if it helps me become a good trader.

    Despite being older in age, I am a newbie when it comes to trading!
  4. you're not gonna find any prop shop that you wont have to put up a capital contribution at.........so start looking at those
  5. I just started at my second firm where I did not have to contribute any capital... nor am I responsible for any losses. I'm 23 though.

    There's tons of firms in Chicago where you don't have to put up any capital. A lot of them deal with option market making though. Stock firms do exist. These firms tend to be more competitive too. A math or computer science degree helps, but is not required.

    In NY, firms like FirstNY and D.E. Shaw don't ask for any capital either... but these are the very top league of prop firms. A lot of guys are recruited from Ivy league schools... some MBAs. In Chicago, Wolverine and Citadel are the big ones. These operate similarly to hedge funds with prop divisions. But if you do a search you will find 2nd tier firms where no capital contribution is required.
  6. Thank you monty21. Please suggest a few such firms and I can write to them.

    I like the options market. I did my Series 3. I undertand options strategy well - love it.

    I am not good at timing the market for entries and exits - that is what I like to do better.
  7. Chicago firms make markets in options. I can't list all the firms. I recommend you go to this site: http://www.tradersnarrative.com/list-of-proprietary-trading-firms-735.html

    Go to each firm's website and make a list of those in Chicago. I would estimate almost half do something with options.

    The top tier firms are Citadel, Wolverine, Chicago Trading, Ronin.. but there are many others.

    There are some European firms (mainly Dutch) that have operations in the US too. Optiver is one. Google around. efinancialcareers.com sometimes has them listed.

    One drawback to the options firms is they prefer math/computer science backgrounds... not always, but strongly preferred.

    Good luck.
  8. Thank you. Monty. I had gone thru a list of prop firms some time ago. I am looking for firms that is not charging a training fee. Many firms hide their huge fees form visitors to their website. It took some effort to find the hidden and not so hidden fees.

    I am looking into Swift trade, Title trading, etc that don't have an upfront fee. I am not concern with the split. All I want is a chance to learn and to be a successful trader working for the firm. I understand you can't list all of them. If you know *a few* that doesn't of a training fee, I would really appreciate it.

    Thanks again.
  9. Stox


    Perhaps you should consider another option.

    If you a consistent trader and can produce a 'track record' of successful trades why not offer your services to 'friends and family'.

    You can have your friends open and account and give you trading rights to the account. If you trade the account for them and split the profits then both of you will benefit. They will get high returns and you will get a cut of the profits and trading experiences.

    Just my two cents.

  10. Stox. Thanks for your reply. As I mentioned earlier, I am looking for a good firm to learn and work. Though am not longer young, I am a still newbie learning and would love to make a career as a trader.
    #10     Jul 25, 2009