Oh wow, is this even normal?

Discussion in 'Options' started by darkshogun, Mar 24, 2014.

  1. Believe it or not but the inverse (or worse) is also possible. Keep it balanced.
     
    #11     Mar 24, 2014
  2. Of course. That's why I'm not trading real money at this time. I would probably stay away from the SPX altogether because of the wide spreads. I don't trust the P/L graphs on TOS but I did notice something alarming. The profit/loss line on one of the demo spreads I had bought had actually risen above the highest point of profit (expiration on this spread was a few weeks away, and this position gained more than it would have gained had it been kept till expiration in a matter of minutes, totally insane) at expiration. Troubling because obviously the inverse can happen too. Which makes me ask this question: how is margin calculated or affected by this extreme type of price behavior? If you sell a condor or a butterfly where the maximum loss at expiration is predefined, how will your account margin and profit/loss calculations on open positions be determined? For instance, say I sell a butterfly where the max loss is $2000 and the current p/L line is telling me the position is now $2500 in the hole. Not that I would actually do this, but pretend the entire account value is $2200. Would this trigger a margin call or would it not, since the max loss at expiration is $2000 and I have enough money to cover the max loss?

    Also, does the price behavior of spreads on SPY behave as erratically as intraday SPX spread prices?
     
    #12     Mar 25, 2014
  3. There is no variation margin on a fly. There is no margin at all, just the risk. If you're long the call fly at $220 then that is the req. Just bite the bullet and trade some one lot SPY in a production account. Nobody is going to wipe you ass indefinitely, well, unless you're my kids. They feel entitled. Do you?
     
    #13     Mar 25, 2014
  4. I thought this was a site to share ideas. If these posts annoy you then LEAVE! You were a beginner once too smart ass.
     
    #14     Mar 25, 2014
  5. C'mon man, jokes aside, he just gave you 2 valuable pieces of advice: market outlook for directional trades , and to trade SPY one-lot strategies to get experience in the real trading world with the best liquidity and low failing price.
     
    #15     Mar 25, 2014
  6. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    Drownpruf also answered his question.

    What is it with newbies thinking the world owes them?
     
    #16     Mar 25, 2014
  7. This has been covered countless times, but as Drownpruf said, you want to learn to trade do it with real money. A demo is only good to learn the platform, it will teach you nothing about getting fills on a fly or closing a position in real life.

    Besides SPY, there are lower priced ETFs and single names where you can put on a fly for a hundred bucks or less.
     
    #17     Mar 25, 2014
  8. It's good advice, thanks. I don't think anyone owes me anything. If I want to day trade I have to wait till a spec house sells so I can plow in 25K (screw the gov. and its silly rules for us babies who can't take care of our own money). Until then I just have to demo or practice with longer term trades on a real account. Do you guys prefer to play it slow and safe or do you like to daytrade?
     
    #18     Mar 25, 2014
  9. With option spreads the real money comes in holding until at least close to expiration, so that is what I do. Others close once they get a decent return per their criteria.

    With vanilla options it's a straight directional trade and that is how I manage it.

    Have a look at some of the options journals, good stuff from atticus.
     
    #19     Mar 25, 2014
  10. PDT rules? Trade narrow strikes and hold at least one day. That TOS sim is a joke.
     
    #20     Mar 25, 2014