offshoring/outsourcing reduces salaries in tech sector: proof?

Discussion in 'Economics' started by wcanyon, Mar 14, 2010.

  1. wcanyon


    Hi I'm new here. Some colleagues and I were discussing offshoring and its impact on the software industry. One person said offshoring is definitely causing salaries to go down. I asked for evidence of this -- the market for software devs in our area is lacking people instead of jobs. No evidence was supplied.

    One the one hand, it makes sense. Code is code regardless of where its produced.

    On the other hand, economics is too complex for "it makes sense that..." to suffice.

    In practice, offshoring rarely works if you ask me. We are working with some offshored code now and its horrible. The time spent understanding this code may be greater than the time saved by offshoring it (it was produced by a team in india that is part of our company).

    The real question: is there any evidence for offshoring decreasing american salaries in the tech sector? Specifically before america's current economic trouble.
  2. pitz


    Ummm, an entire decade of American CS / EE grads unemployed or underemployed after the hiring in the industry stopped in the late 1990s.

    Masters and PhD salaries that are so low as to be extremely exploitive.

    Silicon Valley turning from a primarily white male dominated tech workforce, to one that is basically devoid of any white people under 35, and mostly foreigners, even while record numbers of white males have been graduating from tech programs in the late 90s/2000's.

    I could go on, but the tech industry, and the offshoring/outsourcing has been a complete and utter disaster for the US economy, and for US tech workers.

    I know guys who are perfectly qualified in laundry lists of technology who put in job applications to major companies, and don't even get responses. Yet the CEO's of those same companies are complaining, "we can't find enough qualified US labour". They simply need to open their resume queues and start interviewing Americans if they want to fill positions -- its really that easy, if indeed, there is demand.
  3. Ya you need to come up with some frivolous and unproductive use of peoples time in order to make it as a profitable software guy nowadays.

    mypoop, facebuck, twit twat, etc...

    Its not just software - technical skills like chemical engineering, structural engineering and drafting, etc have all been outsourced. I have seen situations where these guys come to Canada and the US on work visas.

    Its happening alot and these guys have experience a white guy from US/Canada would take maybe 15 years to acquire and they are exposed to huge projects early in their job cycle, like early 20s.

    When the average student is passed out on a friends couch, these guys have finished school and are working for local divisions of global firms like Bechtel.

    The only solution is to make them part of your own business.
  4. pitz


    Internet company business plans are still as broken today as they were in the late 90s.

    Amazing that a decade hasn't change much of anything.
  5. 7 Chindians to each American competing for jobs.
    China + India = 2,100,000,000 + vs US =300,000,000
    Corporations can not afford US workers and go overseas at 1/5 of the cost. Technology like odesk is crushing US tech jobs. Consumers can not afford US made products. 40% of all US tax payers work for govt: state, local, federal, education and military.
  6. pitz


    Yeah, we've cooked our own gooses (geese??) by such poor attitudes in the workforce.

    Instead of supporting science and engineering endeavours throughout the economy from the 1970s-onwards -- we supported financial endeavours, while letting our best and brightest students 'survive' on Postdoc and grad student stipends that are less than paid to welfare moms.

    I personally know many people with good science and engineering skills who have just given up on using their skills in the economy of the past decade. Its a travesty that its more effort for an engineering grad to find a job, and more failure prone -- than it is to complete the engineering degree itself!
  7. odesk is the job killer app you don't hear much about.

    Was looking for a specific skill set for updating a software widget. Quoted $16K - $60K + 3 months from US based companies. Went with a really talented Russian independent via odesk for $500 turned around in 2 days.

  8. southall


    White British actresses told to leave Bollywood

    British actresses who appear in Bollywood films are being targeted in a hate campaign by one of India's most feared political leaders

    Stars including Alice Patten, the daughter of Lord Patten of Barnes, and Hazel Crowney, a former model from Kent, have been accused of stealing jobs from local girls.

    Raj Thackeray's Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS), a Mumbai nationalist street gang and political party which inspires terror throughout the city, has called on foreign white actresses to go home.

    His campaign for a ban on the estimated 1,000 British and other foreign actors who regularly appear in Bollywood films has been widely criticised but many foreign actors are too afraid to speak out.

    Thackeray is especially feared in Bollywood, where he has the power to shut productions and close cinemas.

    The campaign for a ban comes as increasing numbers of European and South American actresses are finding roles in Bollywood movies.

    In the last few years, Kylie Minogue and Denise Richards have appeared in major Indian films. Miss Patten starred in Rang De Basanti, one of the most popular Bollywood films of recent years, while Minogue appeared in a raunchy song and dance scene called Chiggy Wiggy in the film Blue with action hero Akshay Kumar.

    It has also become increasingly common for Hollywood stars like Sylvester Stallone and Superman star Brandon Routh to take cameo roles in Bollywood productions to boost their appeal.

    This international approach could now be threatened because producers and directors fear Raj Thackeray will ruin their films if they do not comply.

    The campaign to ban foreign actors was launched last week after the MNS raided a the set of Crooked, starring Amitabh Bachchan, India's most famous star, and demanded to see the work permits of 136 foreign actors and actresses.

    The MNS holds seats in the Mumbai region but its strength comes from its activists who are regarded by many as violent street thugs. Its supporters have launched violent attacks on rickshaw drivers from other parts of India and threatened organisations which retain the name 'Bombay' instead of 'Mumbai.'

    Shalini Thackeray, an MNS leader, said: "Why can't our Indian actors dance with locals? We will insist that only local junior artists should be employed.

    "We will check whether they have valid permits. Many times, foreigners come here on tourist visas, but take up work in Bollywood."

    She was supported by one of Bollywood's top dancers, Rakhi Sawant, who said: "Because of these foreigners, our Indian girls remain jobless. These white girls are like lollipops that only last for two days."

    Vir Singhvi, one of India's leading commentators, said the party was using the issue to win over Mumbai's women voters who have so far shunned the MNS.

    "The MNS says [these dance scenes] are against Indian traditions, vulgar and cheap. They do this to get women's votes because women object to half-naked dancers, but it's not enough of an issue for women to change their minds," he said.

    Leading Indian film director Jag Mundra last night criticised the campaign and said it could push up costs and force film-makers to shoot more scenes overseas. To save money, directors usually hire attractive backpackers passing through Mumbai and shoot dance scenes in local clubs or film sets.

    "The reason producers pick white girls is because a lot of them have better figures and are willing to expose them," he said.

    "If you need a bikini shot, not many Indian girls are willing to turn up in a string bikini. But most white girls will not have an issue with that. Titillation has been an important part of Bollywood."
  9. Damn... you know times are tough when our good lookin hooker actresses get laid off instead of laid in India.
  10. Mav88


    Wage compression is what some economists call it, and they predicted it long ago since they said american wages were artificially high.

    I can't figure it out- how did the free traders convince politicians that it was a good thing to have americans compete with people who work for 1/5 the wages and have the same skill sets?
    #10     Mar 18, 2010