Occupiers-What Do You Want?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Maverick74, Oct 7, 2011.

  1. Maverick74


    I'm going to try to start a serious discussion here because this is really bugging me. I have honestly spent some time thinking about this and I swear to God, I'm trying to be honest in my thoughts. Ironically enough, I have quite a few friends throughout the country that are actually participating in this protest so I do know their background and their financial situation and nothing adds up.

    When I walk by the "occupiers" in Chicago, they all have $200 I-phones, laptops, nice clothes and most of them are "overfed" to put it politely. What bugs me about this country is the concept of "relative wealth". In other words, if Bill Gates has 40 billion and I have 100k, I'm basically homeless in comparison. But is that really fair? Because if we took that same person with 100k and compare them to 95% of the people on the planet earth, they are Bill Gates.

    I think the problem is we are so prosperous and spoiled in this country that any slowdown in velocity in wealth and we feel like we are broke. It's like a drug, we need to keep spending or we're dead. I mean seriously, almost all my friends live lives that people in India would kill for, or most of Asia or all of Eastern Europe or South America. They have 65" flat screen TV's. Nice apts, expensive smart phones, they go out drinking 4 nights a week, they eat out a lot, they even travel!

    But because some hedge fund manager made 2 billion last year, they think their income should be some fraction of that amount. What am I missing here?

    OK, so some of these people are mad and say the banks "stole" their homes. Fair enough, so again, I looked at some of my personal friends since I know them fairly well. My friends bought huge homes that they never should have bought. They bought expensive condos, all of this on a very modest salary.

    So yeah, they lost their home that they never should have bought to begin with. But is that really what this is about? Yes, I get it, union membership is declining. Jobs are going over seas. I get all that. But that is evolution. Every empire since Rome has suffered attrition as the very prosperity they created got exported to surrounding countries. And most people think that is good. Because it's going to countries who desperately need it. You know those countries were kids are dying at age 5 from malaria or places where families work for a $1 a day.

    Remember, it wasn't long ago when Europe was prosperous and we were a wasteland. We took the wealth from Europe and brought it over here and as our empire grew, theirs shrank. This is a very natural process and I honestly don't think even isolationist polices can stop it.

    The final argument is the so called greedy bankers. Yeah, they are greedy, fair enough. But is that really the problem? The irony is those same greedy bankers created the bubbles that most Americans actually benefited from and created the high water mark that we fell from that is now making everyone feel so poor. Had the banks not gotten away with what they did, we never would have had the housing boom, all my yuppie friends would be renters instead of owners, throw away the flat screen TV's and the i-phones and most of my friends never would have even had a job or any money during the 2000's.

    It's kind of like living off the prosperity of the mafia. The stealing and the killing and the crime doesn't bother you as long as you get your tribute. As soon as they stop providing for you then all of a sudden you realize they are criminals and they should be stopped.

    Why wasn't anyone complaining on the way up? When they were living large in a 700k condo on the north side of Chicago with a 35k a year job. Why weren't they complaining when they were making 150k a year as a loan officer when they should have been working the swing shift at Denny's? Why weren't they complaining when they were working in a union making 75k a year with a 10th grade education and barely the ability to read and write?

    Maybe the solution is to just give them nothing. Because they seem to only get mad when you over feed them with prosperity only to take it away from them when the bubble burst. If they never get to experience the euphoria of the bubble will they be happier?

    I look at my family, both my parents and how they grew up. My mother grew up in Nazi Germany, my father started working at the age of 6 in his father's grocery store. Neither of my parents had anything. There was no cable TV with 600 channels, no cell phones, no laptops, no exotic weddings in Hawaii. And no, they didn't have healthcare. They were part of the so called "greatest generation". You know the group of people who were givers, not takers. The group that made sacrifices. They gave up their lives so their kids could have it better.

    One final comment concerning the so called top 1%. Yes, the top 1% have a lot of money. But most if not all of that wealth does not come from wages. It comes from inflation! It comes from the very left leaning governments that have printed money to pay for social programs designed to bring more equality for everyone. The social programs were paid for by inflation. Inflation that raises the value of assets that rich people own and through the power of compounding accumulate vast amounts of wealth.

    So let's do this, we'll stop inflating their assets through government spending, but in return, we kill the social programs. Is that really what you want? The stock market will rise slowly, home prices will stay flat for 50 years, nobody will get extremely rich from being long risk assets, but the flip side is, you are on your own. Is that really what you want?
  2. achilles28


    Look around, Maverick. America is bought and paid for. We live in a fascist plutocracy where the top 50-100 Corporations run Government, for their profit. The past 30 years witnessed the systematic dismantling and pillaging of America because politicians opened their legs for campaign donations and the retarded Boomers couldn't give a shit to look under the hood. We are ~3 years out from Greece. If you think that's "okay", that its 'natural' to ship our middle class to China and mass immigrate H1B's to decimate what's left of the IT trade, that 20 years of asset bubbles and moral hazard is business as usual, excuse me, you're the problem. You Boomers really handed us a gigantic pile of shit. Who gives a flying fuck about all the plasma TV's, Ipods and ponzied McMansions when the Country is teetering on the brink of insolvency? Economically, this is just the beginning. The 5 Trillion bailout to Wallstreet - while necessary to stave off a total collapse - only kicked the can down the road. All this was totally avoidable had Politicians and voters did their job 30 years ago. That we can agree. The nation is filled with reactionary idiots who voted for the free lunch every time. On the flipside, politicians and Corporations were equally on the take, except they knew the score, and they knew the irreparable damage their changes would do to the Country. The idiot flag-wavers kept their mouths shut for handouts, and here we are. The Occupy Wallstreet Crew are largely social communists and totally backward in their solutions. A lot of them are moronic College kids. HOWEVER, the difference between them and the Boomers? They know when they're getting fucked. OWS is entirely right about the problem (Crony Capitalism) and entirely wrong about the solution (Social Communism). We are at a crossroads. 2008 was the culmination of 30 years of incestuous policy between Government and Wallstreet (Greenspan put, repeal of Glass-Stegal, ZIRP), Fortune 100 (offshoring, global wage arbitrage) and bribes to the underclass (HUD, GSE subprime mandate). Things will get worse. And so will the demonstrations. As for their demands, 90% bullshit. However, we can use this moment to push for REAL SOLUTIONS to REAL PROBLEMS. Crony capitalism must end, we must get back to hard money, end the FED. OSW is the beginning. A Large-Scale Social Awakening and first-steps to widespread rebellion against this existing parasitic, cancerous social "order".
  3. achilles28


    Time to grow up and face facts, boys and girls.

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  4. pspr


  5. JamesL


    When did Dylan Rattigan, a former cheerleader for Wall Street, become such a douchebag? When he was on BBTV or CNBC, he was one step away from going Cramer.
  6. They don't know. Ask anyone who rails against capitalism what they would replace it with, and they can never ever tell you. We do have a a severe income gap issue, but it cannot be fixed by just taking from the rich. This is a deeper issue. Teach a man to fish.....

    I don't think they heard that parable.
  7. Ross Perot......a giant sucking sound.....remember that? Or are you too young.

    Anyways, we were warned, by a Billlionaire.
  8. achilles28


    Too young, but I read about him. Yea, he was right. Nobody gave a shit....

    They will soon, tho. Greece is only the beginning, friends...
  9. Maverick74


    First things first. Stop being a tool. Second, I'm not a fucking baby boomer. Third, I've told you this before, I was reading the libertarian manifesto while you were still jerking off to your father's playboy magazines in high school. I love how the young know nothings on here think they can lecture the world because they can read blogs. Anyway, thanks for your response. I've already erased it from my memory.
  10. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Rkgx1C_S6ls" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Remember, young Achilles, this was in 1992, it is now for all intent and purposes, 2012.......
    #10     Oct 7, 2011