Obtaining Trading Capital

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by Cole, Apr 24, 2004.

  1. lindq


    That was well put. Trading is no different from any business venture in that ideas are a dime a dozen. It is execution that counts, because day-to-day execution is what cuts the diamonds from the crap. If you have an idea but have no realtime execution - whether you are selling a trading system or selling widgets - then any investor is going to want to see the guts of what you've got, and is going to want most of the profits. If COLE truly believes in his system, then he'll scrape together enough bucks to put it into play, and provide proof of performance. Backtesting alone is worth little. As any experienced trader will attest, there are a number of important elements that go into successfully trading a system other than what occured with historical data.
    #21     Apr 26, 2004
  2. So how does COLE "scrape together" the $50K he says he needs - save for winning the lottery?
    #22     Apr 26, 2004
    #23     Apr 26, 2004
  4. lindq


    Gosh, maybe he does it the old fashioned way?

    He EARNS it. Like maybe by - hang on here - actually WORKING?
    #24     Apr 26, 2004
  5. So tell me how long will it take someone even with a spartan lifestyle to save $50K not taking into account the daily frustration of being able to trade a valid system.

    Sure it's theoretically possible to in 2-5 years save $50K, but it's not easy. 2 - 5 years is a long time...

    Ultimately, this may be his only option, but do not make it seem as if this is a pleasant or easy solution. It is a very frustrating solution with no guaranteed results and a large investment of time, effort.
    #25     Apr 26, 2004
  6. Brokers do it every single day. Its a skill to be learned. Don't think that you need the most robust method or best results to go out there and raise capital for trading. Most people just don't want to do the work, and can't stand rejection. For just one moment, crawl out of your trader skin and forget the idea that fantastic numbers arranged from backtesting only need to be present to those with risk capital, in order to get trading money.

    Present a sound idea and then sell it. Yes, this requires some guts and hard work, because lets face it fellas, if these investors were REALLY interested in giving you money to trade, they would have called YOU.

    Quit moaning and trying to find the Holy Grail. Remember that you are entering into a relationship with your future investors. You have worked hard to fit a trading system that matches your personality (if you are successful). Now you must find the investorsthat FIT your SYSTEM as well, and are comfortable with the volatility you have both determined and explained to them. Not everyone who is in a position to entrust their money to you will do it, just like not everybody who can afford a large yacht buys one. So expect that it will be a numbers game and get to the real work. There are VERY few professions where numbers sell themselves. You will likely have to face (and be rejected) by more potential investors than you have conceived in order to get the ones who are your diamonds.

    Press on. Too many traders want to put a few numbers together, cross their fingers and hope that checks will come in the mail. I'm not saying that in particular about anyone here, but many times the relationship, salesmanship, and sweat work is the missing link in a potentially successful trader needing capital.
    #26     Apr 26, 2004
  7. prophet


    Of course they will if they want capital badly enough and believe in their methods. A real time demonstration is a very small price to pay for capital.

    Then why bother test at all? I think the issue is validity of testing. Many don't know how to test properly. Then again many do.

    Disclosure is a choice, not a risk. Disclosing to an honest person leads to constructive collaboration. Disclosure to a dishonest person can be like selling your soul except you may get nothing in return.

    I'm surprised you think this. Though I guess it depends on how you define an original concept. None of my methods can be implemented in TradeStation or WealthLab. I use indicator formulas, interpretation, and adaptive / inductive networks and Bayesian models that I have not seen used in the same way, and not for trading. I know several others using similarly unique methods.
    #27     Apr 26, 2004
  8. prophet


    excellent advise!
    #28     Apr 26, 2004
  9. Cole


    I appreciate all the responses, and no Lindq I am not afraid of hard work.

    I offer this opportunity to any investor who is prepared for the journey that lies ahead. My systems are very robust and will not crumble during real time trading. After 3.5 years of trade by trade out of sample testing, profits continue as expected from historical in sample testing.

    I understand skepticism. We have all been 'duped.' I am simply offering an opportunity to a person willing to take a risk on a man who has the sole intention of providing a high rate of return for capital.

    Prophet makes a point about original ideas. My systems also cannot be implemented properly on Tradestation etc... My entry indicator is proprietary and very original. No one is entering, sizing and exiting trades the way I am.

    Any more questions?

    #29     Apr 26, 2004
  10. Mecro


    You can run the system with 200k-300k. Why not trade prop or set up an arrangement with a prop firm?

    Someone mentioned Bright.
    #30     Apr 26, 2004