Quote from Hydroblunt: during the mid-1990s the IBM guy tried to claim greatness and honorability when the company stock was gapping down over 10% due to missed earnings. He took in smth like half a mil shares of a 2 mil opening print (dont quote me on the numbers). He was up several points in a half hour. Lot of ppl & institutions were pissed since the gap down was obviously overexaggerated so that the NYSE scum could make a couple easy mil. What would have stopped you? If he opened it at say 83, and had to buy 500K shares to get it opened (a huge trade, even for a spec), it's because there weren't any better bids to offset the imbalance. What would have stopped you from bidding 84? Why isn't this just simple supply/demand?
That's a riot.... the most informed trader on this board, who used real world examples... but doesn't trade NYSE at all.
Hydroblunt excellent post. Please let's not make assumptions, about everyone's trading styles, as I am new to Elite trader boards, I have over 15 years experience trading, (newbie comments) Since the start of the year I am currently up 20%, with a combination of swing and scalping style. I started this thread to see if anyone else came across similar experiences from the NYSE stocks. Thanks all for your participation. Please continue with your great comments for and against (and please use real examples).
excellent post Hydro.... Goldman/nyse/sec got the pennies soley for the auto/algo programs... they own the sec and a US judge named robert sweet. then you look at who is getting away with massive fraud via illegal naked shorting and the mosaic comes into focus. corruption is rampant on wall street... thats the name of the game.
I agree, and they had chosen a victim (Martha Stewart) to punish just to show the public that they are anti-corruption and anti-manipulation. I believe a lot of others do bad than her, it just they didn't get caught.
Alan, thanks for taking the time to help me interpret this. That's really interesting, the possibility of a special type of marketable order that allows him to wait for a better bid. I see where you're going with that, and wondering who that could be beneficial to outside the spec (which isn't really the issue and i know we're just tossing out ideas here). Generally speaking, i'm trendfollowing with an avg trade length of 3.5 hours and frequent overnight holds. Signals seldom coincide with a price breakout. Definitely, the next time I encounter this situation on NYSE, I will call the IB trade desk and get as much specific info as I can. It's possible someone else is trading it, but I'm hesitant to conclude that. I use a lot of wiggle room timing my executions, 3 mins or so, so the liklihood of always lining up with someone else seems low, and i haven't discussed specifics with anyone. I haven't been collecting T&S for these, but maybe I'll start with the next occurrence on the nyse. This morning I had a "service quote" pulled from under me on amex. because the nbbo bid was only 100 shares it's not required to be firm... so I called it in (to the IB trade desk) and the Amex gave me the 100 shares, but leaving the order active created a big mess because the signal was a reversal and a big order relative to the mkt. So it was a pyrrhic victory as I watched the rest of the order slip away, phone in hand. One thing I notice frequently is that when I narrow the amex's nbbo on arca with a non-marketable limit sell for example, both the Amex and CAES will print several buys at my size and price, sometimes even better prices. I can't tell if someone's rubbing it in that I can't make a market on CAES, or trying to compel me to go with the spec, or what. The liquidity just isn't available in any obvious way even though it's printing at or better than my non marketable limit prices pretty much every time i make the nbbo on arca and am the first one there. I need to find out the system at CAES, because the spread stays super wide and the prints go off inside the nbbo with no prior indication other than my own attempts to make a market. My understanding is that the specialists can also make markets on CAES, so could he be trading with himself between Amex and CAES when these mystery prints go off with me sitting on arca as nbbo? If I made more nyse trades, I'd have more to elaborate on there. I didn't get any signals today on that symbol. Thanks again for your help and your time Alan, I'm happy to take this conversation to pm if that works better.
If you trade breakout/momentum, stick with NASDAQ. If you like to trade counter trends, envelope, trade pairs, stick with NYSE. Trying to get in and out quick with a specialist blows. You don't get filled on breakout when it goes the way you expected. When you do get filled, enjoy your loss. It is great for counter trend traders when the specialist does a big tradethrough (from ripping off someones large order), fills you and reverses. You can make money in both, just depends on your trading style. Good Luck!
the only thing that I think these guys should be held accountable for is the number of shares they are allowed to steasl at a price level, this gets particularly annoying when you are trying to get short (non sho stocks, the is no way in hell you are getting the shares once the stock starts to move) and more shares get bought at your offer price then what is even showing on the level and he still wont even give you a share, this happens all too often when the stock is right about to take a nosedive and these guys are just flat out stealing when they do this. Prime example today on F specialist starts filling my short order for 15000 shares I start to get my fill and manage to get 3300 of them and then some other guy slaps 200,000 on the offeer now I keep seeing bids come across into this 200,000 and I think I this is awesome im going to get my shares and have massive size behind me, after this I counted about 40,000 shares coming being bought at this level, the specialist never gave me another share and the stock went down 4 cents immediately after these shares printed. I know that these shares are being bought at this price it is not sell order price imporvement because I can see the bid coming across. Does anyone know why this happens? or can anyone give any sort of justification to this if the specialist isnt flat out robbing me what is happening??? -Dan
You need to learn the rules; how can you enter a trading arena without knowing the rules? Don't be like Mr. Rockford. Any serious trader should know that long sales take priority over short sales. All of you guys who think the spec is out to get you and takes pains to screw you do not know the rules and characteristics of the exchange (besides having very wild imaginations, judging from your stated interpretations of the scenarios you describe here; seen any black helicopters lately?). I suggest you get an education before your next trade. This business has a 95% fail rate.