do you think objectivism is the cause of the economic situation. the concept of the ultimate virtue being your self desires is something which has created a society based on greed. do you agree.
No. Greed and greedy are words used by looters and moochers. People that are responsible for their self and family and actually contribute to society generally do not use those words.
i take it by that you are saying people can be selfish by caring about their family however that contradicts the concept of selfishness which is to only think og ones self. also you will find if you read atlas shrugged the main work objectivism is based on people who are capable of contributing to society fail to due to them not wanting to any more that is why things start crashing. so objectivism is limited to self desire.
There will always be parasites in this world. Lets not make life easier for them like we currently do, lets make life HARDER for them. Personal & family responsibility is what I'm talking about. And yes, I've read AS. In 2009, the moochers and looters are winning. They must be stopped.
Great thread, and I see you guys are trying to keep it at a high level of contribution. Kudos. Yes, I think what we describe as "greed" is responsible for our economic conditions today, and furthermore, every single member of the American society (white, black, immigrant, man, woman, whatever) has contributed to our condition. You get the the society you want, and this obviously is the society we (as a collective entity) believe in, and think we deserve, otherwise we wouldn't have brought ourselves to this condition, or allowed it to happen by the few who possess extraordinary levels of sefishness and greed.
One could argue that selfishness and greed are at the very core of human progress throughout history. If we conclude that invention & innovation have created better lives for humans, then we have to ask, what are the motivators for this? Is it not based on selfishness or greed, as far as wanting money or notoriety for one's accomplishments?
what is it that created that greed and is there a way to take it away. perhaps the love of another human being to feel enough for some one else that they come before you. people feel it for their family and for close friends some times. is that part of the problem that the breakdown of relationships has taken that love for others away from society creating a situation where people only concern themselves with what they desire. perhaps this is down to modernisation and changes in life due to towns and cities and the work load and the concept of higher production to one fulfil happiness and to alleviate a social need. perhaps it is deeper the disintegration of family and the extended family due to geographic mobility or changes in laws.
freud claimed that people needed a sense of importance and this is a driver for invention and human drive some people claim it is what seperates us from animals for example if a someone wins a trophy at a dog show they will show it off and the dog will not care. so why did the human. freud said that people look for this importance and try to replace the relationship with the mother in womb. i think people look for love it comes in many forms the feeling of higher intelligence, physique, strength, wealth etc. each person will look at themselves and try to see what justifies their need for receiving love and attention from others and so it spawns greed to create that feeling of superiority to get that love. if people were satisfied for that love in other ways the need for greed which is the by-product of that need for love will go away. what money does is enable people to force other people to do what they want so they can meet that need for love. people want money so they can get attention or meet their need for love. they can do this by enabling the thing another person wants by playing on their desire which they believe makes them superior to other and thus provides them with love or they can force people to do it by putting them in a position where they have to do what ever they want. like i said if you meet another person in your life you love more that need will be fulfilled and you will not be greedy any more if every one met one person they loved more than themselves greed would go away. Peace from st Valentines.
i dont know if objectivism is the problem, but we just had the economics editor of Ayn Rand's objectivist newsletter in charge, and he really fucked things up some say that it would have worked, had only he stuck to it, but that in itself may e a failure of the philosphy to take into account human nature
I would say the need for love and/or power are what has driven human beings through time ... and according to my previous definition of greed, we would both be correct. This begs the question of whether human beings must take the needs of others into consideration when pursuing their path (which as we have seen previously, is based on greed/selfishness/love/power) or whether they do not have to take the needs of others into consideration. FTR, I have ALWAYS seen human beings fall into the (greed/selfishness) trap when pursuing their goals. Be the goal based on job, church, family, relationships, art, etc., etc., etc. The end result is always, always the same. The seek the lowest path ... perhaps that is why our evolution is slow and takes so much time, eh?