NYSE trading Dead?? Hybrid??? End of alot of traders

Sanjuro · Mar 28, 2006

Very Accurate Synopsis

Quote from Hydroblunt:

Then you are simply defending your edge rather than the practices & racket of NYSE. I know the mentality, I've said the exact same years ago. It does not make the facts any different, NYSE specialists are licensed thiefs, the whole structure & organization was set up as a swindle. Regardless, specialists are more brutal to daytraders more than any other party these days, so the same edge is also a handicapp.

Nasdaq possesses more volume and much greater moves. It has more innefficiencies than NYSE if you look at it from that perspective. The problem of black boxes hits the human limitations on the nose. Speed, Execution, Absense of emotion and greater processing capacity. It is only logical for the transition of human scalpers toward computer scalpers.

The racket is changing, it's gonna be the black boxes, mostly run by the big power ibanks that will dominate intraday action. You can join them and compete against them on the same level. Or you can get away from the mechanical scalping and the short term "tape reading" and trade on a different time frame. The specialists have an exclusive risk free & very profitable racket that will be broken up. Even though guys like Goldman have the obvious edge, any random guy can get a real piece of it if he puts in the work.
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USAtrader · Mar 28, 2006

Just in case it is not clear from my statements:

I PRESUME that specialists make the market LESS efficient, not more efficient. This, I suggest, is a reason why specialist involvement is a good thing for TRADERS. In a perfectly efficient market, trading opportunities are seldom found if at all, in any strategy. For traders the specialist is just another piece creating the inefficient puzzle that allows those of us who take advantage of the inefficiencies created by specs. to make coin.

I have yet to hear from any of the traders here, who have proven themselves profitable (somehow) through the specialist system, complain about it. Only negative listed traders, and naz traders who also trade listed .

Quote from RedManPlus:

You PRESUME that Specialists make the market "more efficient" for a given stock.

That's their Party Line.

Specialists spend 99% of their time manipulating orders for high volume stocks.
High volume stocks are the ** most efficient ** part of the market.
So Specialists add minuscule volume... and take out big profits where they are LEAST needed.

On the other hand...
Low volume stocks (< 50,000/day) that most need a market maker...
Are ignored by the Specialist until someone like me places a limit order...
And then they "penny jump" me with ONE f***ing board lot.

The NYSE is nothing more than a massive skimming operation...
And would fit the RICO definition of organized crime...
If they were not given a license to steal by Congress.

rm+

And don't go chumming the after hours ocean like that Longhorns dude.
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Bitstream · Mar 28, 2006

Quote from Sanjuro:

Since when does opening orders have anything to do with being a breakout trader. The Gaps I'm referring to is when the specialist opens the spread INTRADAY and prints a big print with no trades in between. It doesn't allow the smaller traders to get in/out quickly except at the other end of the large spread.

openin' orders have a lot to do with breakouts, the stock can gap and be stuck in a range for a few min or half a hour then suddently take off; same after is faded at open and takes off in the opposite direction to resume the trend.. the spread here also is very wide sometimes and I have to accept that, it is part of the biz of tradin this time frame: if there's a spread there's a reason...the stock is likely to go up and big time.

intraday fake prints as u described them might be a cause for concerns and I can understand that.

When a stock breaks out, I hit the bid or ask and get into the trade. I don't waste time trying to buy on the bid or sell on the ask trying to get price improvement and miss the move. The only time you would get price improvement is when going AGAINST the trend. Breakout traders go with the trend.

of course u do that, u hit da bid if the stock is in a zone of consolidation or pausin' between thick green candles [at open and if u don't get filled u lift] not when is skyrocktin' otherwise u'll never get filled, but sure u can get price improvement many times.

Sorry, I don't trade afterhours. Trading with no liquidity is stupid.

afterhours is liquid on stocks reportin' earnings or important news: hundreds of thousands of shares are traded in matter of minutes; check it out.

Good Luck with the New Hybrid System.
It'll help weed out the wannabe traders.

no comment
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heavy · Mar 28, 2006

"I PRESUME that specialists make the market LESS efficient, not more efficient. This, I suggest, is a reason why specialist involvement is a good thing for TRADERS."

I Agree.

bjb1963 · Mar 28, 2006

Quote from USAtrader:

It's interesting how so many here have the naive idea that the specialist is an enemy to the listed day-trading community. Except on the boards here, where "profitable" traders seem to be everywhere, I have never met a profitable LISTED trader who was happy about the decline of the specialist.

Bottom line:

More efficient - bad for trader
Less efficient - good for trader

Open to arguments to this...
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So VERY VERY TRUE. I don't understand you people that want to get rid of the specialist. The specialist is VERY MUCH my FRIEND. I really don't get it.

NYSE Trader · Mar 28, 2006

Quote from USAtrader:

It's interesting how so many here have the naive idea that the specialist is an enemy to the listed day-trading community. Except on the boards here, where "profitable" traders seem to be everywhere, I have never met a profitable LISTED trader who was happy about the decline of the specialist.

Market inefficiencies of all kinds are what keep profitable traders in business. To advocate the hastening of the death of the specialist (however inevitable it may be at some point) is like advocating for decimalization suggesting that fractions hurt day-traders since they can't get the best price to the penny, and similarly for any of the changes that we've seen over time that have made the markets more efficient.

Bottom line:

More efficient - bad for trader
Less efficient - good for trader

Open to arguments to this...
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I was about to post but found that USAtrader has already stated my thoughts rather well. For years I've been making a living for me and my family trading with the NYSE specialists...I don't see them becoming extinct right away (hence the word 'hybrid'), but I'm definitely developing other trading strategies in anticipation of that eventuality.

Sanjuro · Mar 28, 2006

Bitstream,

I agree with most of what you have to say.
I have friends who trade the bid and ask in areas of consolidation and get price improvements from the specialist.

I trade the stocks only when they are not in consolidations and hit the bid and ask to get in and out quickly and do not often get any price improvements.

sigsegvboogman · Mar 28, 2006

"I never understood this attitude. I can't remember the last time I thought I was robbed by a specialist.

nitro"

It's those lightning fast fills that never happen in a fast moving market against you...............And those stuck limit orders that get routed to NYSE and the fact that they will not allow you to cancel/replace the order.......until they are sure they don't want it and the market has since moved.......They make the old FIX version of Arca look like Inet execution speed......

nitro · Mar 28, 2006

Quote from sigsegvboogman:

"I never understood this attitude. I can't remember the last time I thought I was robbed by a specialist.

nitro"

It's those lightning fast fills that never happen in a fast moving market against you...............And those stuck limit orders that get routed to NYSE and the fact that they will not allow you to cancel/replace the order.......until they are sure they don't want it and the market has since moved.......They make the old FIX version of Arca look like Inet execution speed......
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I use everything you just said to make money.

nitro

sigsegvboogman · Mar 28, 2006

Me too...in a different way...its just every once and a while I get on Arca and I get routed to NYSE..and that happens......