NYSE Tape Readers

Discussion in 'Hook Up' started by FXTraderWill, Oct 1, 2007.

  1. I'm looking to meet any NYSE tape readers who are out there trading alone or in a small group and making money. I am trying to create a small group of traders who will communicate ideas via Skype during the trading day. I am not asking for signals. I am an experienced tape reader and know a few others, however I'd like to re-create as much of the experience of trading in a room as is possible. If you're successful and skeptical of my ability to provide value to your trading, I will prove my worth in real time.
  2. I think you're at least a couple years late.
  3. Are you implying that the time and sales, combined with the LII+open book doesn't provide useful information that can constitute an edge?

    Its a little more complicated than using a bullet to front run a market short, looking at a cross and seeing where the specialist prints it and trading with him, or looking at imbalances... but tape reading is still alive and useful. The cheating order-pulling algos and conned liquidity situation don't change the tape's fundamental representation of fear and greed. As long as thin stocks exist intraday liquidity squeezes exist, tape reading will be work.

    If everyone who just bought the refreshing arca at 59.80 showing 100 shares and refreshing for over 5000 is leaning on one big 8000 share bid at 59.75, and it gets pulled, and Im the first to hit the 800 shares 2 cents beneath that at 59.73, with no bid behind that in the book or level II for 40 cents, and a 2300 share offer on NYS at 59.83, there's a higher probability that Ill make 70 cents on the 800 shares than it is that I'll miss the .83 and get squeezed to an average price of .94 for a 20 cent loss; most likely Ill bid down 30 or 40 or 50 cents and get filled from a panic market order, even if other liquidity comes in to fill the gap soon after. Trading like that is timeless.

    It seems all the tape readers who are skilled enough to make it in the hybrid market are totally independent.
  4. Cruzan


    Do you have any good links for tape reading, particularly for trading ES? I'm trying to improve my skills.
  5. Pure observation.

    I do not know anything about how people consistently make money tape reading the ES, nor any website that will color your judgment of that trading instrument in such a way that will allow you to be profitable. However, I do recommend you start out with a smaller market first and learn to tape-read that. The people trading the ES are the smartest, most competive human beings on the planet. Therefore the tape of that instrument is full of all of those people trying to trick each other into buying and selling at the wrong times. If you observe a simpler stock, where there are fewer people competing over the money in it, your chances of finding an edge with less work are higher. It's much easier to detect a buy or sell program that is going to move the market in something that's thinly traded than in something extremely liquid.

    Tape reading is basic stuff. Feel the market, sit there and see what people are doing, and feeling, and react. Only your experience doing that can help you become a better trader. What should you look at? The prints, and book. Study that. You'll see patterns or you won't...

    The hardest part isn't the tape-reading. The hardest part is dealing with the emotions.
  6. Oh really?

    So if you're so smart, why are you asking for NYSE Tape Readers and not Tape Readers in general.

    Having much success with tapereading Nasdaq stocks? Cause there is not much difference from NYSE anymore. How about tapereading S&P futs, give it a try.

    It's not the strategy it used to be, in fact, it's not even a strategy anymore, just a helpful tool which gives confirmations here and there. It's actually simplified from the old school tapereading, since there is so much noise and pointless prints.

    The example you provide is likely to end in a churn. While you think you are smart by shorting against the big bid, often you are the fool because the 100 share refresher seller can be a small order and the big bid attracts a lot of shorters. The strategy is old, I used to exploit back in 2003-2004 since so many daytraders were trained to lean on big bids that wouldn't move.
    Most likely, there is nothing there anyway, just a churning share exchange. Order flow is fragmented, creating many variables and often creating illusions about some situation which is not even there. Just noise.
  7. Aisone


    Wow, sometimes I wonder if ET breeds @holes or if it just attracts them. :p
  8. Nordic


    He's absolutely correct. And now with the specialist able to have hidden reserve behind 100 size, it's even more distorted.
  9. Aisone


    Even an @hole who's right is still an @hole. ;) If the OP makes money this way who is someone to tell him its not a strategy. And I think most grew out of "if you're so smart..." by the 6th grade, or maybe the 8th for slower developed kids. :D

    More power to the OP if he can use the tape to his advantage.
  10. I wonder if you will ever get the IRONY behind your initial post in this thread. Let alone actually contribute anything to the thread besides insults.

    P.S. You seem very sensitive, does that come with old age?
    #10     Oct 17, 2007