NYSE Front-Running needs to be addressed

Discussion in 'Order Execution' started by hayman, Feb 17, 2004.

  1. Banjo

    Banjo

  2. MrDinky

    MrDinky

    #12     Feb 17, 2004
  3. As you can all see, the Specialist's are under scrutiny and have to pay fines like many of the other "bad guys" out there. I would imagine that there has been quite a bit of internal concerns, and that the bad practices should be cut back considerably now.

    The fines and restitution aren't too bad, so I guess the regulators didn't think too much was "stolen"....LOL.

    Anyway, let's hope that this makes for much better markets for all of us now.

    C.Robinson...I know that the first half hour or so is more of a "do what you will time" on the NYSE, and therefore the most important time of the day.

    Remember, there is a difference between "trading in front of customers orders" (the fine issued today), and "pennying"...the first relates to "time" (taking an order out of turn...illegal as I see it), and "making a better market" "Price" ..coming in ahead by a penny or so...improving markets...not illegal as I see it.

    Now we still have to worry about it is "pennying" each other....remember, we, as traders, account for a big chunk of the trades taking place....so, be good to each other (yeah, right...LOL).

    We do our best to show our traders how to find stocks that are less vulnerable to these practices.

    Back to work..

    Don
     
    #13     Feb 18, 2004
  4. You are right on this one Don! By the way, I don't know how well you made a case for going to Las Vegas for your class, but it was funny to hear you rip on some of the particular snake oilmen at the trade show (buy on green light, sell on red light)! :D
     
    #14     Feb 18, 2004
  5. I don't think you'd be singing this tune if you made your money primarily from investing, as the vast majority do.
     
    #15     Feb 18, 2004
  6. Everyone should keep in mind that MMs have been doing a lot of illegal and unjust things as well.

    That said, the only problem I really have with the specs is the way they often prevent traders from getting short naturally! That should be cleaned up!
     
    #16     Feb 18, 2004
  7. As you can see, sometimes I just "go with it" - and don't really have a strong "agenda" (to "get" people to L.V.)....We pretty much filled up the next Vegas class anyway...

    I have to admit that the shows make for excellent fodder for the "snake oil" expose'. LOL

    Glad you enjoyed the show...

    Don
     
    #17     Feb 18, 2004
  8. HI..

    I assume you would like to eliminate the uptick rule. That might be an answer, but if you really think about it, isn't that counter-intuitive to the "protect the investor" mentality that is growing on Wall Street? As an old options and futures trader myself, I don't distinguish between long and short (for profit purposes), and we have always liked the downward moves better than the rallies (for the obvious reason that the markets go down more quickly than the rise).

    It's interesting to read the many varied comments on this board (and other places)...many are in favor of "hanging" everyone (specialists, MM's, firms, exchanges, etc.), and then others want to relax many of the rules aimed at protecting the investors. The investors haven't been very well protected via the MM system, and we see many problems with the NYSE (nothing really new, just more awareness).....my basic conclusion is that the highly opinionated people here are obviously voicing the concerns that affect them directly..."fix my concerns first" ...which is understandable, but in reality, for things to really get done, there has to be viable alternatives to existing practices ...alternatives that don't cause more problems than they fix.

    Pre 1929 (my brother's time)...LOL...no uptick rule...was that simple rule the "end all" for fixing the trading problems...I guess they thought so back then....but who really knows.

    Let's continue to find alternatives that allow our pursuit of profit and happiness (synonymous?) alive. LOL

    Don
     
    #18     Feb 18, 2004
  9. ===
    Yea, Bloomberg reported the 5 Specialist firms paying 245 million in fines this mourning;

    might be a bit more internal concern about the related lawsuits in the works.

    Some lawyers specialize also.
     
    #19     Feb 18, 2004
  10. Check out the nasdaqs new computer based quotes and executions, almost impossible to trade..
     
    #20     Feb 18, 2004