WHile I have no idea about the merits of your explanation, I don't care. Like Gene said, the costs are the costs. Either I accept them or I don't. It's not my place to question how they are derived. I know you are entitled to a profit or at least to try to make a profit in return for the infrastructure risk you take each month. I found out eventually that if I don't like something I should either work to change it or avoid it. Complaining is for losers. Too much opportunity cost in complaining. I give you much credit for staying on these boards and answering every jab and question. Sometimes you avoid the answer, but so what. That in and of itself is an answer. Most of the questions asked are done hiding behind a mask of anonymity. How many of these questioners are willing to call your 800 number posted in these banner ads and ask then to your face so to speak. Speaking of the banner ads, I believe that there is a conflict of interest in your prowling these boards while advertising on them. Save the ad money. Or better yet help underwrite these boards without the ads as a give back public service.
Gene: My question has utterly nothing to do with the fairness of commissions in general. It is aimed specifically at determining the justification of an SLK/Bright imposed "surcharge" for trades that may, or may not, warrent such surcharges. I am asking for clarification of these SPECIFIC fees only, on behalf of every trader that pays these fees. Don: "Loaded" "Jab" "Infantile"??? Why did I expect a higher level of maturity in your response? The only thing irritating is your ostensible practice of repeatedly evading tough questions. You can run commercials on these boards all day long but when it comes to addressing a specific and critical question, you avoid the issue and spend all your time attempting to discredit the questioner. And if you think that I am implying with certainty that you make money on the NYSE charge, you are patently wrong. I am simply asking why this charge should apply because it appears somewhat suspicious to me. So I'll repeat the question for the third and last time. Why should SLK pass along this fee if they are capped at roughly $500,000 per month in DOT fees??????? If there is a justifiable reason for this then God bless you. I am simply trying to understand the reasoning. Spec: If you want to pay more and not question "the establishment" then knock yourself out. Moreover, if you have a problem with me asking a valid question, or in your infinite wisdom deem it as complaining, then feel free to tune out. And by the way, the practice of avoiding questions serves entirely no purpose whatsoever other than appearing evasive.
This is a little off topic, but I've seen this argument on several threads. I, for one, am glad to see a firm step up to the plate and pay Baron for all of the advertising they get on the boards through regular interaction. The fact is that Bright sponsors this section but an Echo trader (Tharp) moderates it, so the argument that Don can somehow edit or force posts to be manipulated in favor of Bright Trading is false. Besides, if anyone has the right to "prowl" it would be someone paying to do so. There are plenty of other free-loading prowlers here. I wish others that participate in veiled attempts to promote their services would do the same and put their money where their mouth is. Baron has a great thing going and those who profit from it should help keep it up. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming... Kirk
Don, We would all appreciate it if you would stick to the core issues and keep personal insults to a minimum. If someone is asking you a good question, it seems somewhat perturbing for you to assert that they are being infantile. That is not a rational response, it is rather an emotional, evasive and maturity-deficient reaction. For further insight into my sentiments, the 2 posters immediately after your last post elaborate upon this most effectively. Elitetrader is a great forum... let's keep it that way. To be fair, I would add that on some occasions you have been a very valuable contributor to this board. Thank you for those contributions. Kind regards, Candletrader
ShortIgnorance, I know the question was asked to Don, but in general if costs are reduced for clearing firms(SLK,PAX), they are not necessarily passed on to the firm(Bright,LWS,ECHO).The economies of scale work for volume traders who joins a trading firm and I think the rates are fair at most pro firms. I thinks it's good to be aware of costs at firms, but I don't think that every time a fee is cut or added by an exchange, it is going to be passed on to the trader. Most firms will actually "eat" small fee increases or fees rather than passing them on to the trader. For example, if a firm has to lease a seat(membership) on an exchange and the fees go up to $18,000 month(AMEX last year) , no trader would want a commission increase to help pay for added firm overhead. The firms try to keep a fair comm. rate for services . Exchange fees, seat leases , billing caps and other costs may increase or decrease and I don't think it is always possible or warranted to increase or decrease comm. rates . Gene Weissman Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C. gweissman@stocktrade.net
This is a great explanation Gene... clear, precise, non-emotional and factual... just the kind of response that Elitetrader needs. Thank you for enhancing professional quality through your presence on Elitetrader, Candletrader
Actually that was true but it was decided that there is too much of a conflict of interest for me to be a moderator in the professional firms since I also happen to be a manager for one of them. I always kept things fair and only erased spam and tried to keep this board a PG-13 rating by slightly censoring four letter words. Now I'm just a poster. I still hang around and will keep Don/ Gene and others on their toes. If they were to post something false I'll call them on it. Robert
You are right, I am wrong. What did Don say when you called his 800 number to ask him personally the question you say he hasn't answered here? Gene and Don, I think your commission rates, at 1 cent or less per share are reasonable. Yes, although I would love to pay less, I need Prop firms to stay in business so I can have access to capital, reduced costs of office and equiptment and the benefit I get from being part of a trading desk. I am willing to pay some fee for that. If I can't make money trading at 1 cent, I ought not be in business, right? Believe me, there are days when free commissions wouldn't help. All, I understand your points about the bias or lack thereof with Bright sponsoring and participating. Don certainly tries to answer many questions. My only point, and I could be over doing it, is the comments you don't get on these boards because he is here. Often, people shy away from speaking their mind when they know the party they are talking about is listening. On the other hand, the anonymity of this forum provokes candid response. Back to trading... remember its all about profits and helping each other find a way to become the best traders we can.
I think you left the last sentence of my quote out. I assume it was accidental. I said in the sentence following save the ad money that maybe he should give the money to Baron without the ad since he uses the boards. This is a valuable service we traders have available. I guess I should stay on topic as should all of us and dedicate this to trading.