def, I undertand all that. My point is this, it's not 1989, many traders can do 10 options or more for under 50 bucks, and the exception, where you don't want to excercise, should be the one you have to call in. Default should be 25 cents for all , and no more. I see where a stock could be manipulated into closing, sticking call or put buyers with a bad fill, only to find the stock reversing hard on Monday. Of course , they could (do?) that now anyhow. I did find it interesting that Don Bright also thought it was 25 cents for all. He's been in the business a long time. Don, where do you stand on this? I am sure of only one thing, they won't get *me* again.
Hello all - I would have to chime in that if the ISE is on the inside bid or ask, I would go directly to ISE (if you can choose your exchange, as with IB). With the other exchanges - sometimes I get filled at the posted price, sometimes not. Personally, I don't need that kind of uncertainty. I don't care what's going on on the other side, I want immediate fills (guess I'm spoiled in the ECN age). I have traded 50-100 contracts at a time on ISE, can't remember any experiences where my order was not filled immediately with the posted size/price. Just my 2c
Once again, I must confess that I don't keep up with all the retail "strangleholds" that are imposed on traders. A quarter is bad enough, but 50 cents is down right exploitation. I can't imagine that execution costs would ever come close to that amount. Oh well, live and learn!
Is this true out of all the trading firms the best traders are from either First NY Securities or Schonfeld. I mean do they have the best training program. These companies just don't take anyone off the street like every other shop they hand pick who they want and give the a rigorous 18 month training program.
Schonfeld has been a great training ground for new traders, and we have gotten many of their "graduates" and found them very disciplined. Since no "training program" will work for all people, we prefer to find traders who work well as individuals and not necessarily part of a "team effort." Good traders tent to "rise to the top" if guided properly and then left to grow individually (IMO). I also think that ETG has grown quite a good number of traders who then graduate into excellent independent traders.
Don what do you know about First New York Securities. I heard that they calim they have the best traders also. By the way Don, although I would of liked to get a better expalanation from you on the opening ( ie. FV) the fact that you did initiate the thread was very helpful to me. You see although I like shorting stocks I am still one heck of a nice guy.
We all love shorting stocks, Shortee...since it is fun to watch them fall...and we know that stocks fall much more quickly than they rise! I, too, am one heck of a nice guy, and I do my best to help out here on the board. I have gotten several calls recently from First New York (to be honest, I have not heard much from them in the past ??)...and although I think the amount of trader profits will vary firm to firm (based on costs and payouts, etc.), that it is the individual traders themselves who "make it or break it"...."Team trading" was a fad in nineties, but it didn't last too long after the bubble burst in the NAZ. Having a "team leader" (still done in some firms) can be of some use at very basic levels, and with very small share size, but if you think about it, if you can direct someone what to do, then you can almost program a computer to do it. Good Trading!!
I've read the various responses about your perceptions about getting ripped off, etc.,etc. so lets clear up the matter... A rip off/scam is perpetrated when something is occuring that is fraudulant. i.e. You weren't disclosed all of the facts and didn't really know what you were getting yourself into. Anyone that opens an option trading account must receive and declare that they have read and understood the OCC's Options Risk and Disclosure Booklet. In that book it CLEARLY STATES these exercise limits, therefore they are disclosed and open - I really am surprised that someone who is the principle of a trading group is unfamiliar with something as basic as the automatic exercise limits of listed options - oh well, live and learn... There is not some evil conspiracy going on here in the attempt to screw the public out of their money. When the option exchanges evolved in the early seventies, the exchanges instituted a courtacy to provide a wide safeguard for owners of options who did not turn in their exercise notices. This was 3/4 of a point for public customers and 1/4 point for professionals. At the time commissions were a lot higher than they were, and thankfully have declined with the advent of ecns and discount brokerages. That said, the rule has been constant all of these years and is still effected as a wide safeguard for owners of options - some of whom still trade their original full service accounts. I do not accept the arguement that someone other than yourself is responsible for your trading decisions, profits or losses. When I worked on the retail side of the business I always turned in an exercise notice for my clients, irregardless of how far in the money their options were. It is your responsibility as an adult and a professional? trader to ensure that your options are exercised - nobody elses. Aside from exercising you could simply liquidate the position prior to expiration, roll it into another month if you wanted to keep it on, submit an instruction not to exercise, etc. Stock, you strike me as the type of person who puts in a GTC sell order well above the market, and then whines and declares that they have been ripped off when the stock runs and the order is filled. I've explained to you that I don't want to take the risk of being pinned at the strike for the reward in question. If you reaaly feel that this is a good trade for you then go for it... Bring your $100,000 down to the floor. It may work for a while, but when your underlying moves violently away from your strike and you are locked into it over the weekend it may bankrupt you - I've seen it happen. It's your money, you're a grown up (I think), take responsibility for your own trade - don't assume or be under the wrong impression - ascertain facts regarding the instrument you trade, don't oversleep and definatley don't forget to take actions that can materially affect your perfromance. Def- you have debated me for almost a week regarding the ISE and it's liquidity and now you admit that you have never even traded one contract. In fact, the extent of your experience is that you've talked with and watched over the past two days... Do you want to try and convince me that markets are efficient and that it is impossible to outperform them too? You know, there's lots of statistics and studies to support that point. But, I have personally seen that that's bullshit too. I stand by my comments. I even called my old clerk in Chicago and he told me that "it still sucks". However, that said, it should be more than adequate for many of the people on this board. The Knight
Thanks Don for your response if anyone out knows anything about First NY Securities I would appreciate it. I read somewhere that they are one of the best trading firms in New York. rigorous training program and high success rate.
knight, you are wrong. when I say I watched ISE trading it means I watched an automated system mass load and trade hundreds of thousands of contracts. that number is not a typo. Naturally I do not watch these markets day in and day out as I live overseas. However, what I saw was real volume, real trades, and real liquidity. I also did witness - no i did not pull the trigger as the person next to me did- many sizeable orders entered and immediately filled via IB directed to the ISE. These orders included options as far out as 2004 (the only place you can get a tight market). Great you spoke to your clerk in chicago. I spoke to the market makers responsible for their bins on the ISE. These same people have traded on floors ranging from the CBOE, AMEX, PSE and markets overseas. I also work for a firm that honors there quotes. I stand by what I have seen. Besides, the volume and growth are statistics that don't lie. I think the AMEX is going to have to struggle to maintain it's franchise. Perhaps I'm wrong, only time will tell.