Number of lots per clip

Discussion in 'Trading' started by shortbleu, May 15, 2010.

  1. Hi there,

    I started trading the 6E (euro future) a few months ago. I am in Europe and trade from home in the evenings after work, either the last few hours of the day session or the first few hours of the night session.
    I 've had some consistent results so far, averaging 6.6 ticks clean per day (clean = after all commissions/fees). I am quite happy with my performance since big traders in prop shops I know average 5-10 ticks clean per day (the consistent prop shop traders I know trade the EUREX bund, bobl, fesx - the relatively junior traders use around 50 lots per clip and average a few '000s euros per day while the more seniors traders use 150-700 lots per clips and average 15,000 - 60,000 euros per day).

    I am not here to try to impress anyone because I trade 1 lot per clip and my goal was until now to become consistent and trade well rather than make big money (you'll tell me that with 1 lot per clip I can't make big money anyway...)

    So now I am thinking about trading bigger size very progressively, i.e 2 lots per clip, then 3 lots per clip and so on... but the fact I trade 6E will limit my size per clip quite quicky I believe, because 6E is a much thinner contract than EUREX bund, bobl or fesx. On fesx somebody can trade in short time frame and use 200 lots per clip without moving the market by a tick. With E6 at certain times, you can use 30 lots per clip, some time, it's more like 5 or 6 lots only.

    It does not happen often to see more than 50 lots per clip on 6E, the max I've seen was 100 lots and it has moved the market quite a lot! It seems possible to move 10 lots per clip most of the time but then if one day I want to quit my job and trade full time, 10 lots per clip does not seem enough to make a very good living (10 lots * 6.6 ticks clean per day on average = 10 * usd 12.5 * 6.6 = usd 825 before tax). I've got a good job and good career prospects; and although usd 825 per day is more than my salary, it is not a multiple of my salary and I would not resign from my daily job and take the risk to average usd 825 per day if all goes well.

    To quit my job, I would need to average about usd 2,500-3,000 per day before I resign and then continue to increase size progressively. Problem is that to make usd 3,000 per day on 6E and averaging 6.6 ticks clean, I would need about 36 lots per clip and that seems too big a clip size for 6E.

    Of course, I thought about trading high volume contracs like fesx, but since I work in Europe I can't trade fesx after work. I' ve traded fesx a few times while on holiday and have been profitable overall but I could not trade fesx often enough to say if I am consistent or not on this contract.

    So I feel really frustrated because even if I do relatively well with 6E, I am not sure it is possible to make a living from this contract at only 10 lots per clip. And since I can't trade fesx after work I don't have a clue if I am consistent or not on this contract. In theory I could relocate to Asia, being in a different time zone and trade after work from Asia but my wife is happy in Europe and does not want to relocate.

    So I come here, looking for advice. It seems to me that Europe is the worst place to trade after/before work since high volume contracts like the ES in the US is entering the night globex session when I finish work in Europe and has no volatility. If you're in the US, you can trade high volume contract fesx before work; if you're in Asia, you can trade fesx after work.
    If you're in Europe, you only have 6E that you can trade and this is a relatively thin contract.

    if you're in Europe or you know a high volume contract that is tradable after Europe working hours, please do let me know!
  2. Stok


    Well, the EUR/USD spot forex market is much bigger size, but you need to understand the pip spreads and have a good, quality broker.
  3. Spot forex is a joke with brokers being bucket shops trading against their clients and creating spikes to make them lose, or freeze the trading platform so the client cannot exit the trade.
    I'll stick with futures
  4. spd


    If you've gotten to know 6E and found some consitency why not start to monitor another contract or two? Split your size up between them. 6B would be the most logical addition I could think of.

    Just my 2 contracts..
  5. cstfx


    Here's a thought then...don't trade thru bucket shops. That's so 2003.

    There are much better offerings out there right now or spot fx where you can easily move a 20MM size order without causing so much as a hiccup.
  6. bone

    bone ET Sponsor

    So, you are currently trading one-lots, passively thinking about going to two lots, but want to consider moving to another market completely because you don't see very many 50 lots trade?

    1. No offence intended, but you really are displaying a touch of naive braggadocio - you really do have a very big mountain yet to climb in the 6E and you just started! Thirty minutes into your very first mountain climb (you're a part time mountain climber), you are going to tell your sherpa guide: listen, this is so easy - let's stop right now and pack it up because I can tell you right now that I should be scaling Mount Everest with the oxygen masks and the specialist gear.

    2. Size scales in markets like 6E and CL.

    3. Theoretically you'd better have about 50 times the capital you are using right now. Your situation will be a bit different. If you don't believe me, show a 50 lot and keep it there like a man - I promise you will get them. Don't pay up, leave it there. You will get filled.

    4. You can make or lose $10K per day trading ten lots in the 6E. Easy. Try it first Rock Star.
    CALLumbus likes this.