Nothing wrong with getting rich trading hard, but will money destroy your mind.

bigsnack · Jan 11, 2014

Quote from NoDoji:

I used to believe this and am just now beginning to realize, after studying (and doing) the work of Byron Katie, that it's our thoughts and beliefs about a thing or concept that brings us or denies us our desires.

If we don't have enough money (or other resources) to obtain food, shelter, water, and medical care, then money will definitely bring a certain kind of freedom and an enabling resource.

But once we have enough money to cover these basics, it's our thoughts about money that bring us joy or pain.

I know two people who have jobs that pay well enough that after taxes they can pay for food, utility costs, decent homes, medical care, entertainment several times a month (movies, shows, dinners, etc.). One guy, Kevin, earns enough to put away $20K or more each year for savings and retirement, and also takes at least a couple 2-week vacations each year. The other guy, John, only earns enough to make a minimum IRA contribution and takes one 2-week vacation each year.

Neither of these people enjoys their job.

Kevin would like to work on a project very dear to him, something's he's passionate about. This project is almost fully computer-based, requiring no immediate travel, no physical materials, no need to hire anyone or coordinate schedules with others. Once completed, this project will generate an ongoing income stream and could very well turn into a full-time business. He believes he needs to be free from his current job to pursue this. He believes that once he accumulates a certain amount of money, he can then be free to pursue this project. He works fewer hours than the other guy and because of the way his work is scheduled he has several days off at a time. He believes he needs to feel financially secure enough to quit work for a period of N months to dedicate to this project, because he believes he needs to have a certain carefree state of mind to pursue this project. Because he believes this, he continues to work (unhappily) and fill the stretches of time off with a strictly scheduled framework of tasks, unable to bring himself to deviate from this schedule without serious anxiety.

John has been working a standard Monday through Friday 8am to 5pm schedule for years. He, too, had a project he wanted to do, one involving a lot of physical labor, equipment rental, and help from at least one other person when available. He would've liked to hire a company to do everything for him but the $10K+ cost was prohibitive. With summer approaching and the days getting longer, he decided to go for it, a little at a time, on evenings and weekends. He played on a recreational sports team with me and regaled us with fun stories about the project each time we got together after a game. In a little over three months, the entire project was done at a fraction of the cost and it was stunning. He enjoys the fruits of his labor every day (even though it doesn't generate an ongoing income stream).

The person with more money and more free time is still to this day held back by his limiting beliefs.

I've seen this sort of thing in trading as expressed here on ET. I worked briefly with a trader who did very well in a sim account, then lost money trading live because his fear of dropping below margin while trading his tiny $3K account negatively influenced his trading. He went back to sim until he had a $5K account and was able to trade his plan well. Nothing changed except his thoughts and beliefs.

So I've seen so many posts on ET about how you need to have at least a mid 5-figure or low 6-figure account to generate enough money to trade for a living.

Why?

Because having that kind of cushion provides one with an "extra form of energy, a certain kind of freedom, an enabling resource" for trading with less fear.

Trading a very small account, or trading under great pressure to perform well, changes one's state of mind, even though a specific positive expectancy trading plan might only require trading a single contract to make a living.

I posted an example like this once before: If I have a $100K account and I tell you that with 6 years of day trading experience, I average $400 a day on that account, most of you would not consider that to be impossible. But if I told you I average $400 a day on a $10K account, you'd call bullshit and accuse me of being a guru/vendor/snake oil salesman trying to lure noobs to their death.

The fact is it's possible to trade a couple contracts of ES or NQ or CL or 6E or other active futures whether you have a $10K account or a $100K account and average $400/day. (In fact, you can do this with a single contract of CL.)

The greatest barriers are in your mind.
More...

This is the best post in here so far. It's so completely true, and is a perfect reflection of my year.

amitman · Jan 12, 2014

Quote from NoDoji:

I used to believe this and am just now beginning to realize, after studying (and doing) the work of Byron Katie, that it's our thoughts and beliefs about a thing or concept that brings us or denies us our desires.

If we don't have enough money (or other resources) to obtain food, shelter, water, and medical care, then money will definitely bring a certain kind of freedom and an enabling resource.

But once we have enough money to cover these basics, it's our thoughts about money that bring us joy or pain.

I know two people who have jobs that pay well enough that after taxes they can pay for food, utility costs, decent homes, medical care, entertainment several times a month (movies, shows, dinners, etc.). One guy, Kevin, earns enough to put away $20K or more each year for savings and retirement, and also takes at least a couple 2-week vacations each year. The other guy, John, only earns enough to make a minimum IRA contribution and takes one 2-week vacation each year.

Neither of these people enjoys their job.

Kevin would like to work on a project very dear to him, something's he's passionate about. This project is almost fully computer-based, requiring no immediate travel, no physical materials, no need to hire anyone or coordinate schedules with others. Once completed, this project will generate an ongoing income stream and could very well turn into a full-time business. He believes he needs to be free from his current job to pursue this. He believes that once he accumulates a certain amount of money, he can then be free to pursue this project. He works fewer hours than the other guy and because of the way his work is scheduled he has several days off at a time. He believes he needs to feel financially secure enough to quit work for a period of N months to dedicate to this project, because he believes he needs to have a certain carefree state of mind to pursue this project. Because he believes this, he continues to work (unhappily) and fill the stretches of time off with a strictly scheduled framework of tasks, unable to bring himself to deviate from this schedule without serious anxiety.

John has been working a standard Monday through Friday 8am to 5pm schedule for years. He, too, had a project he wanted to do, one involving a lot of physical labor, equipment rental, and help from at least one other person when available. He would've liked to hire a company to do everything for him but the $10K+ cost was prohibitive. With summer approaching and the days getting longer, he decided to go for it, a little at a time, on evenings and weekends. He played on a recreational sports team with me and regaled us with fun stories about the project each time we got together after a game. In a little over three months, the entire project was done at a fraction of the cost and it was stunning. He enjoys the fruits of his labor every day (even though it doesn't generate an ongoing income stream).

The person with more money and more free time is still to this day held back by his limiting beliefs.

I've seen this sort of thing in trading as expressed here on ET. I worked briefly with a trader who did very well in a sim account, then lost money trading live because his fear of dropping below margin while trading his tiny $3K account negatively influenced his trading. He went back to sim until he had a $5K account and was able to trade his plan well. Nothing changed except his thoughts and beliefs.

So I've seen so many posts on ET about how you need to have at least a mid 5-figure or low 6-figure account to generate enough money to trade for a living.

Why?

Because having that kind of cushion provides one with an "extra form of energy, a certain kind of freedom, an enabling resource" for trading with less fear.

Trading a very small account, or trading under great pressure to perform well, changes one's state of mind, even though a specific positive expectancy trading plan might only require trading a single contract to make a living.

I posted an example like this once before: If I have a $100K account and I tell you that with 6 years of day trading experience, I average $400 a day on that account, most of you would not consider that to be impossible. But if I told you I average $400 a day on a $10K account, you'd call bullshit and accuse me of being a guru/vendor/snake oil salesman trying to lure noobs to their death.

The fact is it's possible to trade a couple contracts of ES or NQ or CL or 6E or other active futures whether you have a $10K account or a $100K account and average $400/day. (In fact, you can do this with a single contract of CL.)

The greatest barriers are in your mind.
More...

Great pont NoD, I'll sign every word of it.

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Nothing wrong with getting rich trading hard, but will money destroy your mind.

bigsnack

amitman