Norway Vs the US in response to Breivik

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Maverick74, Jul 24, 2011.

  1. Maverick74


    While the media and certain members of ET will be focused on whether Breivik is right wing or left wing or whatever, I would like to draw your attention to a different area, which is the difference between Norway and the US. Let me highlight some of these quote's.

    "Police arrived at an island massacre about an hour and a half after a gunman first opened fire, slowed because they didn't have quick access to a helicopter and then couldn't find a boat to make their way to the scene just several hundred yards (meters) offshore. The assailant surrendered when police finally reached him, but 85 people died before that."

    "A SWAT team was dispatched to the island more than 50 minutes after people vacationing at a campground said they heard shooting across the lake, according to Police Chief Sveinung Sponheim. The drive to the lake took about 20 minutes, and once there, the team took another 20 minutes to find a boat."

    "Footage filmed from a helicopter that showed the gunman firing into the water added to the impression that police were slow to the scene. They chose to drive, Sponheim said, because their helicopter wasn't on standby."

    "There were problems with transport to Utoya," where the youth-wing of Norway's left-leaning Labor Party was holding a retreat, Sponheim said. "It was difficult to get a hold of boats."

    "Gun violence is rare in Norway, where the average policeman patrolling in the streets doesn't carry a firearm"

    This would absolutely be unacceptable in the US. Police don't care guns? Can't find a boat? Helicopter on standby? WTF? It took 90 f*cking minutes to respond? When the police got there, Breivik surrendered immediately.

    Just something to think about. We often here about how wonderful Europe is and how great their socialism is. Well, it's great because there are many things they don't fund. Apparently helicopters, boats, fast cars, guns and a freaking police force.
  2. Ricter


    It's kind of like cities that don't keep snow removal equipment on hand because it's rare that they get snow.
  3. Maverick74


    No, it's not the same thing. A police force is suppose to protect it's citizens. That is what they are there for. Miami may not allocate funding for snow removal but it's citizens don't pay taxes for the city to keep snow off the streets.

    Don't get me started on gun control. If whoever was running this youth camp had access to just a single firearm, this atrocity would have never taken place.
  4. Ricter


    I think it really is the same thing. Of course they could spend a lot more, on personnel and equipment, and readiness training and maintenance.

    You spend money on an ROI model, which includes probability. Another example, we're cutting wasteful government spending on an near-miss asteroid detection program because the probability of an asteroid strike is so remote (short term). But paying for it, because the consequences can be so devastating, means you have guys sitting around "doing nothing" for long periods of time. Sure, we'll still have a few, but the sky is a very big place.

    You might be right that this could have been nipped in the bud if anyone at the camp had had a firearm, but consider that if the perp thought this likely, he may have resorted to bombs instead. In other words, his plan would have changed.
  5. bone

    bone ET Sponsor

    That makes absolutely no sense at all in terms of substance or logic. Modern law enforcement techniques and equipment for a capital city in the 21st Century reflects the reality of terrorism. I can promise you that Zurich, Switzerland has a SWAT team replete with helicopters and assault weapons on 24-hour alert - and that would include response support for a hamlet or township some mere 24 miles from the city center.
  6. loik


    Police claim today that it took approximately 60 minutes from the local police was notified, to the SWAT team from Oslo captured ABB.

    Police claim that the local police had the boat ready when the SWAT team arrived.

    The helicopter filming, was originally going to fly over the city of Oslo for an aerial shot(already in the air), but was redirected to Utoeya when the shooting was known. That`s why they got there earlier than the SWAT team.

    And shootings in Norway are quite rare.
  7. Ricter


    I believe you. Either they think such incidents are more likely, in Switzerland, so they spend on it because they have to, or they have enough money left over (from other expenditures) to spend on it even though it's not very likely.
  8. Ricter


    What's the rate, though, I mean per capita?
  9. byteme


    Police force capabilities, equipment, preparedness etc. are arguably proportional to the threats and demands they are likely to anticipate within reason.

    I would suggest that a 6-sigma event would catch any system off-guard; I thought you would understand that given your background in trading and options.

    Murder rate in Illinois 6.0 per 100,000
    Murder rate in Norway 0.6 per 100,000
  10. Maverick74


    I hear dying is quite rare as well. It only happens once in our lives. No need to do anything to prevent that either.

    I can't believe anyone on this forum would defend the response time to this tragedy. It's absolutely unacceptable.
    #10     Jul 24, 2011