NoDoji's Day Trading Log

Hermit, I believe that as a registered member of ET, you had to agree to ET's "Terms of Use". I see you didn't read the fine print which clearly states:

"Pulling Bob's leg gives Bob the right (but not the obligation) to smash leg-puller's face into pavement."

Thanks, Win, for the update, I'll let him know.

I thought I might trade this morning, but took one look at the action and decided the dog looks like he needs a good run about now.

 

Woke up early because got a call from my business which I am working to sell.

Finally took a trade long on es. It was a good trade but instead of not watching the chart after getting in the trade, I was watching it go up then fall back down a little lower than my price I got in at.


I then felt an emotional reaction and got out for just .75 of profit. So bad trade / money management today. I guess this issue is don't second guess yourself after you get in a trade, was seeing reasons for the trade not working out after I got in which were irrational.

 

Oracle, good luck in selling your business!

Every time I've traded ES live (which is very few times), I've cut my profit short by micromanaging (or as my good friend would say, "micromangling") the trade.

I've been spending an hour or two each day working on this in my demo account and still struggling with it!

 

August: +$460

What I didn't do on my summer vacation: Trade

 

- $505

Overtraded X today. I traded both live and sim together using two styles: In sim I used my “dangerous” trading style of averaging into a position that ran against me. This is how I used to trade, back when I was profitable. I would either average in, or place a very wide stop and wait for price to come back my direction. I was really confident back then about this style.

In my live trading today I put on a full position at once and placed stops above or below previous S/R levels, and with my winners I moved the stop too quickly, cutting them very short. In sim once my position was fully on, I left my initial stop in place until price moved significantly in my favor.

The end result was nasty for my live trades. I traded way too much instead of choosing zones and letting them play out. I ended up chasing entries and getting killed by a thousand stops, finally ending the day at my max daily loss. Because no individual loss was large (max $50 on any given trade plus commish) I didn’t realize how easily the day’s max could be reached. My winners were smaller than my losers because of moving stops too quickly to lock in small profits instead of capturing large profits and the losers outnumbered the winners. Not a recipe for success.

In the sim account because I was averaging in, I only had 4 complete trades and ended up $225 profitable!

The dual trading styles provided an interesting lesson and I’m not sure how to interpret it and what to do next. I have to give this some serious thought. They say “If it works, don’t fix it,” and I was nicely profitable for the first 3 months of the year using the style I used with X in sim today. I’m just not sure how well I can manage risk with that style.

I also had an ESRX trade today, which was a mistake. I had ESRX and FDX both on watch for some range shorts. I was watching FDX chart, saw my setup, put on the trade only to find in short order that I had traded ESRX in IB, not FDX. I saw FDX price moving my way and the P/L not moving my way and realized what happened and exited ESRX for a small loss. Chased FDX, which had nothing left to give and stopped out for b/e.

Maybe this just wasn’t my day to trade stocks with “X” in them …

 

Well you are also dealing with the fear of trading live. You are killing your winners quickly since once you are in the money, it is too painful for you to see if they are going to turn against you and head back to your stop.

If you want to average into a trade, I would suggest still having a stop even a wide stop, plus use your natural target that you were planning for the trade.

If you want to average in, know that you plan to do this before you enter the trade, trade a small qty and decide how far you are going average into the trade.

For example, you plan to max trade 900 shares, and plan to average down 2 times, you could put in 300 shares each time, knowing that the market can still trend hard, and one day you will take a big loss, but that you are ok with this since your win% is 80 to 90%.

Obviously, chasing a trade is bad, if you get in a trade at the wrong price, then it is too far away from your natural stop, and also can no longer pay you the profit to justify the risk.

Normally, I rather just take my profit or stop targets knowing that I got in best that I could based on my signal.

However, one time last week, I did average in once since I saw the natural stop was near plus I got another good signal and was watching the market while I was in my trade. If you average in, it should be based on some type of logical reason for entering in again for example you get another signal whatever rather than just averaging down and hoping that the market will go back up to your target. I took 1.75 profit when I should have taking 2 points in the es, so even I have this problem of not holding till target sometimes.

I think you need to decide what way you want to trade, either picking good spots to get into the trade and having the strength to hold till it reaches your profit target (if need be step away from the computer or trade smaller size to prevent emotional thinking) plus not chasing if you miss the entry, or averaging into a trade with a wide stop.

To prevent revenge trading, how about having the strength to just sim trade one style or the other on Tuesday, your choice, no real money. Then on Wed, trade the same way you did on Tue if it was profitable with real money but small qty. On Wed, do NOT use sim. Sim is only for testing out ideas, most traders stop using it once trading real money unless they have a new idea.

Obviously, if trading were easy, everyone would do it. There is no way to win every day, the goal is to make money over time. To decrease draw down, you need to let winners hit targets and not chase, and not revenge trade plus only take good signals with multiple confirmations.

 

The majority of today's losses came from putting on a solid trade, moving the stop too close, getting stopped out for a small profit, watching the trade move strongly in my favor (had I left it alone), chasing it, and then getting stopped out for a loss. I don't even know how many times I did this, but it sure added up to the down side.

Exactly. That's the technique I was using in sim, same stock, very different approach. Just 4 trades compared to 40+ trades and a much better outcome.

Oh, I had NO fear of trading live. I traded fearlessly 45 times today (hey, I finally accomplished Mark Douglas's 20-trade exercise!). How many times in this journal have I complained about undertrading? OK, I made up for it today with overtrading. Let's see if I learned anything...

 

Ok, I understand, you move the stop up which is a little different than me where I move the target down a little.

However, its the same problem, fear of loss. I am not saying you fear trading, in the past I have had losing trades and days where I keep trading and want to get out the trade ASAP once you are in it.


Obviously, another problem was you over traded, only you can decide if you were doing that because you got valid signals or were revenge trading trying to make back your losses.

What you could also do which I sometimes do, is take one or two trades live with real money then switch back to sim for rest of day. The goal is to be profitable not to trade. Once you start doing well again if you feel you want to increase the number of trades you take that is fine. I just feel there are only so many good signals per day. I have seen some traders that watch the market the whole day and don't take any trades since they did not get a u good signal. If you are taking 5 to 10 or more trades per day, you need to develop a filter to be able to reduce the signals you are getting to allow for better trades.

 

77

Not nik picking, just wondering what is a "NATURAL TARGET" ?

I understabd a "measured move" but never heard of a natural target. Help me out. Thks

FWIW: i like to put on a trade "all in" (add-on seldom) based on a solid signal with a pre-defined STOP LOSS based on whatever i feel like, ha and always like to leave the target open ended but yes, i do like to yank profits again based on how i preceive the then price action because i always knoqw i can reenter at any time.

BUT, i never average into a trade as a breakout trader because either the trade works or it is a dud.

Trading is not as subjective as many want the game to be and that is a fault that causes problems. I can not outguess price but i can surely follow it and that is much easier if one anticipates first.

 

Hi,

I understand you trade based on price action. I trade based on a system. Obviously, all systems are based on price. Targets and stops will be for you or nodoji may be based on "price action" if both of you trade the same way, I don't know, maybe he is your student.

Anyway, my point is that the target or stop needs to be based on something logical not "hope". I see many traders lately just keep averaging into their trade however, real money is not sim, so eventually if trend continues to run against them or nodoji, you know what is going to happen as well as I.