No One Truly "Loses" in the Stock Market

Discussion in 'Trading' started by MarkBrown, Apr 17, 2025.

  1. deaddog

    deaddog

    But if no one sold short, where did the money go?
     
    #21     Apr 17, 2025
  2. Businessman

    Businessman

    Founders in the Forbes 100, or any company, if their shares go to zero they lose net worth big time. And it doesn't get transferred to anyone else. It just disappears.

    People like Elon Musk, Peterfly etc

    No one sold them the millions of shares they own by founding the company, so no profited from their loss.
     
    #22     Apr 17, 2025
  3. MarkBrown

    MarkBrown


    WRONG THEY CAN AND DO SHORT THE MARKET.

    i worked for a very large fund we were short the market every day and we were long also.

    this complication is why everyone loses - i am telling the holy grail but you will never comprehend.
     
    #23     Apr 17, 2025
    smallfil likes this.
  4. MarkBrown

    MarkBrown


    the market cannot go down UNLESS SOMEONE SHORTS"

    IT'S MUTHER FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE....
     
    #24     Apr 17, 2025
  5. Businessman

    Businessman

    Any shares they don't sell. The value of those unsold shares disappear if the price crashes. No one profits from that loss.

    I just gave the counter example and you refuse to believe it.
     
    #25     Apr 17, 2025
  6. ElCubano

    ElCubano

    :confused:
     
    #26     Apr 17, 2025
  7. MarkBrown

    MarkBrown

    say they have shares they cannot sell right we agree on that right?

    if so move on

    now if i was elon and stuck with shares i cannot sell what do i do?

    think

    ok had ai do the thinking for you

    ----------------------

    If you were in a position like Elon Musk, holding a significant stake in Tesla and unable to sell due to restrictions such as insider trading regulations or reputational concerns, there are various strategies you could use to hedge against a potential decline in the stock price. These strategies are commonly employed by executives and large shareholders:

    1. Options Contracts
    • Put Options: You could purchase put options on Tesla stock. A put option gives you the right to sell Tesla shares at a predetermined price, providing protection if the stock price declines. This strategy is often used to hedge downside risk.

    • Collars: Another option-based strategy involves creating a collar, which combines buying a protective put and selling a call option. This limits downside risk while also capping potential upside.
    2. Equity Swaps
    • Equity swaps allow you to exchange the future performance of Tesla stock for another asset or index. This would protect you from declines in the stock price while maintaining exposure to broader market trends.
    3. Diversified Portfolio Hedging
    • Investing in assets inversely correlated with Tesla stock (such as certain commodities or market indices) can offset losses in the Tesla position. For example, if Tesla stock is tied to growth sectors, hedging with assets tied to defensive sectors might provide a counterbalance.
    4. Structured Notes
    • Structured financial instruments, like notes specifically designed for hedging large stock positions, can offer downside protection while maintaining exposure to potential gains.
    5. Cashless Collar Agreements
    • Executives often use cashless collar agreements, which allow them to simultaneously buy puts and sell calls, typically funded with proceeds from the call premiums. This method avoids upfront costs while providing downside protection.
    6. Charitable Trust or SPV
    • Another way to hedge could involve transferring shares to a charitable trust or a special purpose vehicle (SPV) and using those entities to manage exposure more flexibly without direct involvement in transactions.
    Things to Note
    • Complexity and Costs: Many of these strategies, such as options and equity swaps, come with costs and may require expertise to manage effectively.

    • Regulatory Compliance: As a high-profile figure and insider, you'd need to navigate legal and regulatory frameworks (like SEC rules) to ensure compliance when using these hedging strategies.

    • Reputation: Public figures like Elon Musk also weigh how their actions could influence market perception and investor sentiment, even indirectly.

    ------------------------------------

    but what does the public do? nothing they get on this forum and bitch and gripe about how the market is killing them lol.
     
    #27     Apr 17, 2025
    smallfil likes this.
  8. Businessman

    Businessman

    You are talking nonsense

    You original point: Wealth Is Simply Transferred


    I gave you a counter example. Where wealth is not transferred, when a founder's company crashes to zero before he can sell. That wealth is not transferred to anyone else.

    There are also other counter examples.
     
    #28     Apr 17, 2025
  9. ElCubano

    ElCubano


    This is incorrect
     
    #29     Apr 17, 2025
  10. MarkBrown

    MarkBrown


    the founder was stupid from birth he did not defend or prepare alternative paths.

    he "you probably" like many traders did not plan for disaster - they only plan on the lambo.


    never has a loss occurred that was not countered by a benefit somewhere.
     
    #30     Apr 17, 2025
    smallfil likes this.