NO BS Day Trading (order flow course) - Worthwhile or worthless?

Discussion in 'Educational Resources' started by Howard, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. SkyChef

    SkyChef

    Howard.
    Sorry, I meant your longer intraday swings like average time between trades & hold time.
     
    #51     Aug 23, 2018
  2. Howard

    Howard

    Oh, my bad.

    Well, if you look at the ES today:

    +10,75 (60 minutes)
    -15,00 (68 minutes)
    +7,00 (61 minutes)
    -6,75 (181 minutes)

    Not every day is as generous as today though. But basically, I'm interested in trading these type of swings or the high/low difference on less volatile days.
     
    #52     Aug 23, 2018
  3. SkyChef

    SkyChef

    I mainly scalp in CL w/ 5 ticks stop & my trades are very fast (around 1-2min) & target predetermined. I currently start to work to embed my runner w/ my scalper & all my tools are still at the scalper level (10s). We are completely at different views hence my set ups might not fit w/ your method & time frames.

    1) I use DOM immediately before & after entry
    2) I use market depth to monitor level of buy/sell resting orders on book
    3) I use bid/ask volume setting up in a way so when market orders being hit, it will show unmistakably.
    4) I use volume profile w/ variable time frames to see concentration of unfortunate people.
    5) I don't use footprint whatsoever. It tends to cloudy all other information which I get through the 4s above in a simple way.

    That's as much I can elaborate. Think about it then you will see the key is imbalance of orders. And it's a waste of time & resources if trading time frame is long. How long is long? Ain't my problem.
     
    #53     Aug 23, 2018
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  4. Howard

    Howard

    Thank you for your comment, SkyChef. It's generous of you to share as much as you do.

    CL is a fairly different market from the ES and more suitable for your trading style.

    I'm now reading the BS trading book and I'm already noting some BS comments that I flat out disagree with, but I am learning new things as well.
     
    #54     Aug 24, 2018
  5. Sprout

    Sprout


    Limit orders on the book have a lot of misconceptions about it’s informative usefulness. One thing that is true, is that one has to have the margin to place the order, resting or otherwise.

    Given you’ve worked through L. Harris’s material, you have a solid foundation on which to build.

    Skepticism has it’s usefulness and it’s place. Most often, when combined with critical thinking, it is quite useful. However, most chronic skeptics never examine the underlying reference points that support their proclivity to be enduring skeptics.

    Skepticism can be either advantageous or disadvantageous depending on context.


    Orderflow software is just another way to display market data.

    At some point in your display of market data from coarse to fine detail, the desire to ‘know’ the degree by which market orders are being entered is quite informative of market turning points.

    Also at some point, interpreting volume accurately is extremely informative. In fact, it’s so informative that it is accurate to say that volume leads price always and without exception.

    There are other parts to the equation to see the whole picture for those willing to do the work to extract the market’s full offer.

    Most will stop at conundrum’s such as lot’s of price movement with low volume or no price movement with large volume when common sense appears to dictate otherwise.

    Interpreting volume is a completely different paradigm compared to CW’s interpretation of price action. Since most in the financial industry are inducted in conventional wisdom, the notion of volume leading price is a minority opinion met with chronic skepticism. The concept that there are volume patterns that progress through a sequence of events is also quite foreign.

    Tape reading and volume interpretation go hand-in-hand. The easiest way to read a tape is by annotating a chart to draw tapes that build traverses that build channels. Indirectly, diligently doing this causes a continuity of context.

    If one is attempting to learn to tape read off the DOM and T&S, although possible, there are easier ways.

    Exploring how other trader’s trade from my pov is always beneficial - even in disagreement, insights are available to an open mind.

    In closing, orderflow software (and accompanying distinctions) is worthy of consideration and can be an informative piece to the market puzzle.

    It’ll all come down to how you apply it.
     
    #55     Aug 24, 2018
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  6. Howard

    Howard

    Can be or is...? :)

    Are you using any particular orderflow software yourself? I've looked briefly into the Jigsaw DOM and it does seem like a huge improvement upon most DOMS (in my case: Ninja's).

    As for the book, I'm well into it and find that I already know a lot of the material intuitively already. I've probably picked up a few bits and pieces over the year on the subject although I haven't studied the DOM extensively in isolation...

    The author seems to be very insistent on that scalping or order flow trading is the only thing that works and is very dismissive of algorithmic trading, charts or anything that isn't pure order flow trading. I of course flat out disagree with that and find it a bit off putting.

    But I will read on keeping an open mind...
     
    #56     Aug 24, 2018
    Sprout likes this.
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    #57     Aug 25, 2018
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  8. If you trade the CL...you left out one important componet..NEWS

     
    #58     Aug 25, 2018
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  9. As a speck in the beach smaller than a grain of sand I have learned to view a large order to be meaningful.

    When a large size prints there is a reason. An institutional trader may be using a systematic signal, or an automated one based on their strategy. There usually is a breakout when I see this order in the time and sales. I wish I could see how and when they scale out...

    This is the first thing I have learned about order flow...but I must still use a chart to see structure.

    The auction that takes place with the price bouncing back and forth by a tick...sometimes stalling... this seems to be a tip of the iceberg for me...I am close but not there yet. The spoofs and the removal of orders when the numbers flash by are hard to record mentally. Have you noticed all of the action while there are not that many prints? Software can help with this.

    Pure DOM scalpers are incredible intuitive traders that capture the HFT's thoughts...lol. I like to read Sprout, Gregg, Callumbus, Mcginnis...and others I cannot think of right now. Callumbus is a master...McGinnis is a street trader...Sprout can "feel" the market and well Gregg he has the experience and discipline needed.

    ES
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
    #59     Aug 25, 2018
    Howard likes this.
  10. Sprout

    Sprout


    Comments within quoted text.
     
    #60     Aug 25, 2018
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