NFL says coronavirus outbreaks among unvaccinated players may lead to forfeits this season

Discussion in 'Politics' started by gwb-trading, Jul 22, 2021.

  1. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading


    As cited in the article all it means it this -- "This implies that Dennison sought an exemption, and that it was denied. If so, he’ll now have to decide whether to get vaccinated."

    Either he gets vaccinated or he is unemployed -- very straight-forward.
     
    #21     Jul 26, 2021

  2. Notice the team is still negotiating with him.... there is a reason for that...

    The NFL is a private organization and they came up with a policy that said players do not have to be vaccinated bu all Tier 1 coaches and staff do. If they don't they cannot be in contact with any players or participate in person in meetings. Does not say they should be fired. Offensive coordinators sometimes work in the booths above the fields and can run film sessions virtually.
     
    #22     Jul 26, 2021
  3. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    Yes.... let' provide the entire article here so people can read it. The "negotiation" is either he get vaccinated and stays on --- or he is gone. He may be fired with no pay or with some pay as termination compensation. I disagree with the article --- not getting vaccinated does amount to a justifiable cause for firing. See the Mandatory COVID Vaccine thread for many examples in the U.S. supported by the courts.

    Vikings say discussions with Rick Dennison are ongoing
    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...y-discussions-with-rick-dennison-are-ongoing/

    ESPN’s report that Vikings offensive line coach Rick Dennison is out ultimately may be accurate. For now, it’s at least premature.

    “The Vikings continue to hold discussions with Offensive Line Coach Rick Dennison regarding the NFL-NFLPA COVID-19 Protocols for training camp and preseason games,” the team said in a statement. “At this time, Coach Dennison does not have an exemption to the vaccination requirements of those protocols. We will adhere to the requirements of the protocols and of applicable law.”

    This implies that Dennison sought an exemption, and that it was denied. If so, he’ll now have to decide whether to get vaccinated.

    Previously, coaches who chose not to be vaccinated weren’t going to be fired or pushed out. However, they also weren’t going to receive direct access to players if they lose Tier 1 status.


    Thursday’s memo may have changed that, raising the stakes considerably for outbreaks involving unvaccinated players and staff. With no union to protect assistant coaches, it’s far easier for teams to take a hard line with coaches than players.
    Given the hard line the league is taking with players, it’s no surprise that teams with assistant coaches who haven’t gotten vaccinated are pushing them to do so — perhaps even to the point of leaking to ESPN the incorrect notion that the assistant coach has been fired in order to prove to the assistant coach in question that the team is serious about its position.

    Dennison remains ready to do his job.

    “At alll times Rick Dennison has at all times been ready, willing, and able to work and to do everything in his power to help the Minnesota Vikings win a Super Bowl,” Dennison’s agent, Peter Schaffer, told PFT. “That continues to be his mindset.”

    It’s a good mindset to have. If Dennison ends up getting fired at a time when he’s ready and willing to work, he’d likely have a strong claim to receive his pay. Although the Vikings could fire Dennison for cause and not pay him, firing him for declining to be vaccinated most likely does not amount to a for-cause firing.

    At this point, however, the Vikings and other teams with assistant coaches who refuse the vaccine may not care. Even if those individuals end up being paid to not work, some teams may prefer to get them out of the building completely, if for no reason other than to further demonstrate to the players who serious the team and the league are about players and staff choosing to be vaccinated.
     
    #23     Jul 26, 2021
  4. Thank you for quoting the article....
     
    #24     Jul 26, 2021
  5. UsualName

    UsualName

    I don’t think that reads that this guy, Dennison, sought an exemption. I think it states that the Vikings are covering their ass because bona fide, and the key is bona fide, exemptions for religious and medical reasons legally have to be allowed.
     
    #25     Jul 26, 2021
  6. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    Let's take a look at the DOJ statement on Monday... and good luck to the NFL coaches who are not unionized and can be fired at will for any cause.

    Federal law doesn't prohibit Covid-19 vaccine requirements, Justice Department says
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/26/politics/doj-covid-19-vaccine-requirements-olc-opinion/index.html

    Justice Department lawyers have determined that federal law doesn't prohibit public agencies and private businesses from requiring Covid-19 vaccines -- even if the vaccines have only emergency use authorization, according to an opinion posted online Monday.

    The opinion from the department's Office of Legal Counsel paves the way for more federal agencies and businesses to require vaccinations.

    The Department of Veterans Affairs announced on Monday that it will require many of its front-line health care workers to be vaccinated against Covid. The VA is the first in the federal government to require shots among its workers.

    Some colleges, both public and private, are requiring their students to get vaccinated before returning this fall. Governments -- particularly the state of California and New York City -- are also previewing plans to require vaccines for certain public workers.

    So far, opponents of vaccine mandates haven't had much luck in court when challenging the requirements.
    In June, a federal judge sided with a Houston hospital when employees sued to block its Covid-19 vaccine requirement. A federal court also rejected this month a request by students that it block Indiana University's vaccine requirement.

    In recent weeks, Justice Department officials have been weighing requests from private businesses and federal agencies seeking legal backing for policies aimed at encouraging vaccinations, according to people briefed on the matter.

    The opinion posted on Monday marks a shift from the Trump administration. Last year, Attorney General William Barr used the Justice Department's legal power to try to fight certain Covid restrictions.

    In its vaccine mandate opinion, which was dated July 6, the department's Office of Legal Counsel said that the law around so-called emergency use authorizations addresses the obligation that certain information be passed on to potential vaccine recipients. The law "does not prohibit public or private entities from imposing vaccination requirements for vaccines that are subject to EUAs," the opinion said.

    Nicholas Bagley, a University of Michigan law professor who specializes in administrative and health care law, told CNN in an email that the Justice Department had offered a "good legal analysis." But he was skeptical of the impact the opinion would have. The weaknesses in the legal arguments against vaccine mandates have "been apparent for a long time now," Bagley said.

    "If we see institutions change their minds about vaccine mandates, I suspect it'll have more to do with the way that risks associated with Delta have changed the assessment of the value of those mandates," Bagley said, referring to the Covid variant that is propelling a surge in cases among unvaccinated individuals.
     
    #26     Jul 27, 2021

  7. It is not a question of the law, it is a question of unequal treatment within the organziation that employs people. The remedy is not a criminal action so the DOJ's input is not really helpful as this is a CIVIL cause of action.

    We are not looking at blanket vaccine requirements but an employer who says one group has to have vaccines or be pushed out of their job and another group it is voluntary as long as they follow certain health guidelines. The argument that one is unionized and the other is not is not a valid defense in court for those who suffer from the discrimination. That is an arbitrary discrimination among your employees. Either they all are required are they are all voluntary if they meet safety protocols.

    How are you going to go before a jury/judge and claim you mandated the vaccine because of CDC and health protocols but only for 1/2 of your organization with stiff penalties and the other half just has to follow some rules if they choose not to get it. Either it is an emergency requirement or you favor one group over the other which means one group can lose their job and benefits while the other is exempt.

    I am NOT saying it is a slam dunk lawsuit but it is a lot stronger than other types of suits I have seen being successful from other employment discrimination lawyers I know. Not everything is sexual harrassment or race discrimination. Sometimes employers simply develop policies that significantly harm only one class of employees which fails a reasonableness test. Thent he employer has to PAY.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
    #27     Jul 27, 2021
  8. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    Hospitals with nursing unions are facing the same situation today. They can mandates COVID vaccines for the rest of their staff but are unable to mandate them for the nursing union members. All they can do with the nurses is demand they follow strict COVID protocols if they cannot prove they are vaccinated. Any non-union member in the hospital system who refuses to get the vaccine is fired.

    The NFL is facing the same situation as hospital systems --- and the courts have already made it clear that employers can mandate vaccines and treat members of their workforce differently.
     
    #28     Jul 27, 2021

  9. Not sure about that...

    Both the American Medical Association and the American Nurses Association have called on all health care professionals to get a shot to protect their patients and themselves.


    In the Texas case, 117 workers at Houston Methodist Hospital who had been put on leave without pay for refusing to accept a hospital-supplied vaccination by June 7 filed a lawsuit claiming their suspension and potential firing constituted wrongful termination.

    U.S. District Judge Lynn Hughes of the Southern District of Texas rejected the case, arguing in a June 12 ruling that if the hospital’s employees didn’t want to receive a COVID-19 shot, they were free to work elsewhere.

    <The point is the hospital applied the rule to ALL EMPLOYEES equally>

    Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., said all health system staff must be fully vaccinated by Sept. 17. Those who do not meet the deadline will be able to keep their jobs. However, they will be required to complete a formal refusal process, which includes watching education modules, wearing face masks and maintaining social distancing while on campus.

    < ALL employees get the shot or if not you can keep your job but undergo protocols... no discrimination by being fired>

    UNC Health said July 22 that it will require teammates at UNC Medical Center, UNC Rex Healthcare, Chatham Hospital, Johnston Health, UNC Health Southeastern, UNC Rockingham Health Care, UNC Physicians Network Practices and UNC Health Shared Services locations to get vaccinated. The deadline for employees at the Chapel Hill, N.C.-based health system is Sept. 21.

    St. Jude Children's Research Hospital said July 14 that the Memphis, Tenn.-based hospital and its foundation partner, ALSAC, are requiring that St. Jude and Memphis-area ALSAC employees be vaccinated against COVID-19 by Sept. 9. In a memo, St. Jude President and CEO James Downing, MD, told employees they must have their final dose scheduled and administered by the deadline, or, if vaccinated outside of St. Jude, have the documentation to the hospital by the deadline date.

    The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs announced it will require COVID-19 vaccinations for its front-line health care employees, including doctors, nurses, and dentists.
     
    #29     Jul 27, 2021
  10. Nurses:

    Another health care union, the New York State Nurses Association (NYSNA), has voiced opposition to mandatory vaccination, although it did not respond to requests for comment for this story.

    Likewise, when WNYC/Gothamist contacted NewYork-Presbyterian to respond to the unions’ stances, it pointed to a memo sent to staff on June 11th. The memo says all employees must take at least one COVID-19 shot by September 1st to keep their jobs. Those seeking a medical or religious exemption must apply for one by August 1st. About 70% of staff at NewYork-Presbyterian have been vaccinated so far.

    Other hospitals in the New York City area are considering similar policies. Northwell Health, the largest hospital system in the state, requires all new hires, volunteers and students working in its facilities to get vaccinated against COVID-19 and will soon order employees who are not inoculated to submit to regular testing for the coronavirus. About 75% of Northwell staff have taken shots so far.




    So your nurses argument fails because hospitals are either requiring ALL employees to be vaccinated or saying if you choose not to be, then you have to follow strict protocols but can still work.


    I would walk into a lawsuit against the Vikings and show how their policies are much stricter than numerous other employers around the country INCLUDING HOSPITALS. Same argument the 9th circuit just used to shoot down CA's closing of private schools.
     
    #30     Jul 27, 2021