When you see people with a few posts saying a firm is good, it don't matter that your intentions are honest, you're going to be looked at as a shill. Don't take offense, just say what you have to say and move on. With that said, I've covered my debts form previous losses so I feel more free now but also very lonely lately trading by myself so I've been looking around for a straight prop firm. Most that don't accept deposits require a degree, that damn degree is what I don't have, but I got experience and a track record. I'm 22 and still need 2 years worth of full-time semesters to get the bachelors. Any firm that requires more than 1K in risk deposit ain't right. Are there firms that don't require a degree? Commissions not important but below a cent. I could do with 50/50 payout as long as there's room for more in the future. Alternatively, any trading clubs out there with physical presence?
You know the funny thing is, if you were 35 with a track record, you might have some luck. At your age, all they are going to look at is your pedigree. Nobody gives two shits about a 22 year old with a track record. No offense to you, just giving you their perspective. The true prop firms that back you 100% are hyper competitive. Even a solid degree from a top 10 school won't get you in anymore. Those jobs are very very hard to get. Of course, connections help as well. Especially in the north east. I know it's not fair, but that is the way it is.
Hi Mav, What do you mean by pedigree ? What type of "pedigree" can a 22-yo have if its not a top 10 school solid degree ? Or do you mean a "been with GS since straight outta high school coz their grandfather was a partner" type of pedigree ?
No problem, thanks for the perspective Mav. It's actually kind of what I expected Gekko, I guess that means I'm SOL at this point, and need to settle for the rest of the firms.
Great Point. Trading is an independent skill, it's not a manufacturing or office job. Prop Traders generally operate under k1 structure (net capital gains) and not w2 employee structure. If someone can't even risk a small capital deposit, how can you expect to trade your own account? If you want to trader for a living you have two choices: 1) Work your ass off and get into an ivy league school, graduate at the top of your class (well over 200k). You can then get a wealth management or investment banking job and if you're very impressive, may get as an apprentice and work up to trader (about 10 years of banking work, but you'll receive a decent salary.) the odds, about 5% success rate 2) Register with a firm and trade their leverage, risking your capital. Study hard and learn to manage your risk. Get a nice run and get the track record. Build your account up or take your PnL and trade firm capital on a split. Most firms (FINRA and CBOE) will back you if you have a track record and a good strategy. - about 10% success rate. Whichever route you choose to take (corporate salary world with no risk or risking your own capital in the market) you will have to give up a lot and work hard. Stop dreaming. nobody is going to give you all the upside without any of the downside. No firm is going to back you and teach you how to trade at their risk. The failure rate is about 90%. If firms did this, not one would stay in business. If you want to learn a skill that will last you a lifetime and provide you the ability to cut your own deals and be your own boss, trade prop. If you want a job, go to school
At the age of 22 living in nyc or jersey? u are better off moving to florida. Im sure there are tons of prop firms claiming to be straight and requires almost no deposit, almost no fees, low commission, and higher payout
Pedigree often means more then just going to a top 10 school. It also includes private schools you attended growing up, what you did in college, did you play sports, president of a fraternity, connections, family, travel experience, everything. So what I'm saying is, it's so competitive that even if they only interviewed people from top business schools, there still would be too many applicants. So you need to bring even more to the table. Ironically enough, at your age, trading background is the least of the things they look at and or interested in.
Mav is 100% right. Unfortunately to get into the trading world during these times is beyond tough unless you have experience. Firms look at a 22 yr old as a recent grad as someone with no experience..even if they say they have experience. At that age it's either a degree from a good school or a connection one has at that firm. Personally...I don't agree with this approach at all. But it is what it is. As far as the whole pedigree thing.....me personally....do not see the correlation between great traders having a degree from a top school. Sorry to all those Ivy League guys. Some of the best traders I have been around over the last 19 yrs or so were guys who went to ok schools (some no college degree). Trading isn't about how smart you are or how high a grade you can get on a test. While these guys are beyond smart, one of the major problems is they can't admit to being wrong/take a loss. They are so used to putting in the hard work,getting outstanding grades, and succeeding. But as a trader you can put in all the hard work, think you have the right trade, and be completely wrong. That's where these guys run into problems. I have seen some very smart guys with great pedigree completely blow out accounts. Years ago I was in a position at a firm where I would get to interview/talk with some prospective traders. Back then I really didn't care about what school they went to. I was more concerned with how they could deal with high pressure situations....what to do when they are wrong in a situation...how do they deal with a losing streak/being wrong for a period of time. What their confidence level was like.....too little....adios....too much where their ego was interfering with decision making...adios.
I agree. There are some different nuances to the hiring practices of NY and Chicago. NY places a greater emphasis on pedigree then Chicago does. But keep in mind, the reason they "ask" for the pedigree is it gives them a license to discriminate. That's just the way it is. It could be the reason why they give a job to a nephew, a person of a certain gender, religion, college, frat brother, you name it. You can't sue them because they can fall back on the pedigree. Just something to keep in mind.
I wouldn't call it discrimination. You're not discriminating when minimizing risk. Hiring someone from a top school with good grades is one of the best ways to be certain the person can handle the competitiveness and excessive work required. What would you do with thousands of applications? How would you start to sort through them? The school they went to gives you a pretty good idea of how hard-working the person is. Of course, it could just be some rich mama's boy, but most of the time it's just someone who worked extremely hard their whole life for the opportunity.